| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. 13:29 - Dec 3 with 11162 views | TheResurrection |
I've been too depressed to talk about the Swans on here, but this is what I saw.
Tammy is non existent in too many of our games, he hasn't got a hold up game and like I've said before if he's not scoring he's not doing anything really.
Yeah he's not helped by Clements safety at all costs regime and we are showing almost zero courage on the ball, it's just Monkball all over again.
So, for me he's got to try Tammy in the Siggy role of last season, out wide with a more free role and in a 433.
He blew Mesa out yesterday and we lost all continuity in the middle of the park. I'm confident had he played we'd have beaten Stoke.
Clement disgusts me |  |
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| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:08 - Dec 4 with 1239 views | nantywatcher |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 12:38 - Dec 4 by TheResurrection |
For some reason you've got a massive issue with Mesa, it's unfathomable because it can't be football related because there's no way on the evidence we've seen he's been any worse than any of our midfield options.
I stand by every word of that. Mesa has the drive and balls to have a go, the raw emotion and passion. The way he celebrated the equaliser at Watford, the way he's not afraid to bark orders or, dare I say it, point. That's a negative in your book but in a midfield of light and polite players that's a massive plus for me.
Truth of the matter is he's not done anything wrong to justify not getting a good run of games, nothing. |
Because he is such a poor plaayer. I would love him to be half as good as his fan club thinks he is, I would be over the moon. Where do you sit to watch the game? If you sit in the North or South, or watch games on a screen then maybe that might explain things for me.
Is it possible to get a heat map of any of his appearances? If there was one it would take some defending from the fan club. |  | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:17 - Dec 4 with 1223 views | nantywatcher |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 14:04 - Dec 4 by 34dfgdf54 |
You've just accused someone of making the most ridiculous comment this forum has seen, and then you compare Mesa to a National League Midfielder.
As Warwick says, f*ck.my.eyes. |
I know you are one of the members of his fan club, and you are right to pull me up on that, but I cannot imagine on his current performance levels that any Championship club would even have the slightest interest in him. He's had plenty of game time to prove himself, however if he plays on Saturday and plays well I will be the first to come on here and openly apologise to the fan club. | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:30 - Dec 4 with 1208 views | icecoldjack |
Surely everyone knew what we were getting with Tammy ? he's raw and will not be smashing in goals in this league for a year or two yet, if ever. I said at the time he's a gamble and after a few games most could see he has plenty to learn.
This is where clement lost the club IMO. No doubt both him and Sanches are talented players but both are very young and no way ready made to excel at this level, it was a huge gamble that clearly hasn't paid off. The longer the season goes on the more those 2 players look what they are, talented boys who need to be nutured a little bit longer before responsibility is placed on their shoulders.
Tammy tries hard but it's a tough ask in this league to score goals with such a limited midfield behind, he's had chances to score but scuffed them, we all know that we need to be clinical to stand a chance and we are anything but that.
Bony thankfully is getting up to speed and is already making a difference, Clement isn't very good at adapting though, basically we are now in miracle mode, we just need to hope that something clicks into place and does very soon.
Tammy,Sanches and most of the other players are trying, it's just that the cupboard of talent has been sold off over the last 3 yrs and not replaced. Difficult for any player let alone a youngster. |  | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:30 - Dec 4 with 1210 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 14:47 - Dec 4 by TheResurrection |
Watch the restart and you'll see it differently.
He's got no bite at all. |
My comment wasn't meant as anything saying Ki is good enough or otherwise.
I just think Tammy showed less desire on Saturday than I've seen in a player for ages. He was shown up by a player that in sheer ability terms, is nowhere near his level. I mean that. And Ki, for all that I want to throttle him, has more about him than Fer.
I agree with your point about Mesa. His exclusion is simply ridiculous. Even if we were 'resting' him he should have been in the bench.
The only possible reason for not sacking Clement is money. And, possibly, we can't imagine who else would come in. | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:33 - Dec 4 with 1204 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:17 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
I know you are one of the members of his fan club, and you are right to pull me up on that, but I cannot imagine on his current performance levels that any Championship club would even have the slightest interest in him. He's had plenty of game time to prove himself, however if he plays on Saturday and plays well I will be the first to come on here and openly apologise to the fan club. |
Again, plenty time to prove himself, what are you basing that on?
Decent game against United (United) for his debut, Man of the Match against Reading (side in the Championship, which he's apparently not good enough for), was one of the main reasons for turning the tide against Watford, and gave a similar performance against Bournemouth where we had the lions share of possession, and if not for bad ref decisions would have had the three points to boot. Then onto Chelsea, solid enough when we had hardly any of the ball.
The game against United in the Carabao, I will give you, he was poor. But every time he plays well, he's axed the following week by the t*sser that is our manager. He never gets a run of games, and it's killing him, new country, new culture, language etc and he's been left out to dry. |  | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:34 - Dec 4 with 1203 views | nantywatcher |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:30 - Dec 4 by londonlisa2001 |
My comment wasn't meant as anything saying Ki is good enough or otherwise.
I just think Tammy showed less desire on Saturday than I've seen in a player for ages. He was shown up by a player that in sheer ability terms, is nowhere near his level. I mean that. And Ki, for all that I want to throttle him, has more about him than Fer.
I agree with your point about Mesa. His exclusion is simply ridiculous. Even if we were 'resting' him he should have been in the bench.
The only possible reason for not sacking Clement is money. And, possibly, we can't imagine who else would come in. |
"I agree with your point about Mesa. His exclusion is simply ridiculous."
I would replace the word ridiculous with the words common sense. | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:41 - Dec 4 with 1194 views | Legend83 |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:34 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
"I agree with your point about Mesa. His exclusion is simply ridiculous."
I would replace the word ridiculous with the words common sense. |
Common sense compared to having Sanches on the bench?
Or Leroy Fer on the pitch? | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:46 - Dec 4 with 1192 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:34 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
"I agree with your point about Mesa. His exclusion is simply ridiculous."
I would replace the word ridiculous with the words common sense. |
I disagree.
We looked a lot better (obviously still not actually any good) in the previous two games when he was playing. And we have to give him a chance to bed in, which we simply haven't done.
What would be common sense is dropping Sanches. We pick him in the vain hope of him suddenly rediscovering his form from 2 years ago. And yet we're surprised when he doesn't.
Mesa hasn't been given a tenth of the chance that a Sanches has. And his form last season suggests that he should have been. | | | |
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| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:00 - Dec 4 with 1170 views | nantywatcher |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:41 - Dec 4 by Legend83 |
Common sense compared to having Sanches on the bench?
Or Leroy Fer on the pitch? |
Personally I wouldn't have either on the bench at this point in time.
Leroy Fer - the one and only player we have capable of running at and beating oppostion players. I'd pick him every time (playing in the right position within a team that was willing to play the sort of football we were playing pre Monk - mm so maybe you're right.) | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:10 - Dec 4 with 1162 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:00 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
Personally I wouldn't have either on the bench at this point in time.
Leroy Fer - the one and only player we have capable of running at and beating oppostion players. I'd pick him every time (playing in the right position within a team that was willing to play the sort of football we were playing pre Monk - mm so maybe you're right.) |
I wouldn't say he was the only player who can beat an opposition player, Sanches can too. Sadly though he can't pass it five yards, so I'll back away from that argument. | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:12 - Dec 4 with 1160 views | nantywatcher |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:46 - Dec 4 by londonlisa2001 |
I disagree.
We looked a lot better (obviously still not actually any good) in the previous two games when he was playing. And we have to give him a chance to bed in, which we simply haven't done.
What would be common sense is dropping Sanches. We pick him in the vain hope of him suddenly rediscovering his form from 2 years ago. And yet we're surprised when he doesn't.
Mesa hasn't been given a tenth of the chance that a Sanches has. And his form last season suggests that he should have been. |
The Mesa fan club rattle on about "his form last season," In that case his loss of form nearly matches Sanches's fall from grace in its decline. For a player to "bed in" there needs to be belief from the management team and fellow players that there is potential in him to succeed. I don't see that happening if all Mesa wants to do is linger around in an invisible 30 metre circle pointing to other people to do stuff he should be doing. | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:13 - Dec 4 with 1157 views | jack247 |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:00 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
Personally I wouldn't have either on the bench at this point in time.
Leroy Fer - the one and only player we have capable of running at and beating oppostion players. I'd pick him every time (playing in the right position within a team that was willing to play the sort of football we were playing pre Monk - mm so maybe you're right.) |
Trouble is, if we want to actually play through the midfield we probably need two of Mesa and Ki (or Leon) starting. Carroll is better when players around him are looking to pass forward with a bit of tempo. If you have one or neither of them in there, we keep doing that irritating thing where no one takes responsibility/risk and we end up passing sideways and backwards until the centre backs have it and the opposition have completely reset.
I’d consider playing Fer at the top of the diamond instead of Ayew. | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:15 - Dec 4 with 1156 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:12 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
The Mesa fan club rattle on about "his form last season," In that case his loss of form nearly matches Sanches's fall from grace in its decline. For a player to "bed in" there needs to be belief from the management team and fellow players that there is potential in him to succeed. I don't see that happening if all Mesa wants to do is linger around in an invisible 30 metre circle pointing to other people to do stuff he should be doing. |
Shouldn't you be at training Paul? Or was it an early finish. | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:22 - Dec 4 with 1147 views | nantywatcher |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:15 - Dec 4 by 34dfgdf54 |
Shouldn't you be at training Paul? Or was it an early finish. |
I'd hate to be associated with PC's general outlook and thoughts on how we should play, but I would guess he (and the backroom team) view Mesa as a dud. But hey there's still the next match to turn all that around, and if his form was so outstanding last season maybe there is stuff in his locker that'll come to the fore before Christmas. | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:34 - Dec 4 with 1134 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:22 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
I'd hate to be associated with PC's general outlook and thoughts on how we should play, but I would guess he (and the backroom team) view Mesa as a dud. But hey there's still the next match to turn all that around, and if his form was so outstanding last season maybe there is stuff in his locker that'll come to the fore before Christmas. |
Show me a post where I mention last years form. I'm on about his form with us, he's been treated terribly here and still when on the park, been one of our better performers, and the teams performances back my point up in the games he has played. | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:37 - Dec 4 with 1129 views | TheResurrection |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:08 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
Because he is such a poor plaayer. I would love him to be half as good as his fan club thinks he is, I would be over the moon. Where do you sit to watch the game? If you sit in the North or South, or watch games on a screen then maybe that might explain things for me.
Is it possible to get a heat map of any of his appearances? If there was one it would take some defending from the fan club. |
What are you expecting to see on a heat map?
I sit in the East.
You? | |
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| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:58 - Dec 4 with 1111 views | TheResurrection |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 15:08 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
Because he is such a poor plaayer. I would love him to be half as good as his fan club thinks he is, I would be over the moon. Where do you sit to watch the game? If you sit in the North or South, or watch games on a screen then maybe that might explain things for me.
Is it possible to get a heat map of any of his appearances? If there was one it would take some defending from the fan club. |
Heat map? What are you expecting to see?? | |
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| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 17:21 - Dec 4 with 1085 views | nantywatcher |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:37 - Dec 4 by TheResurrection |
What are you expecting to see on a heat map?
I sit in the East.
You? |
Not a lot of movement.
I'm in the east Upper - love to watch a Mesa performance whilst sitting next to you - we'd probably come to blows! | | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 18:08 - Dec 4 with 1054 views | TheResurrection |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 17:21 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
Not a lot of movement.
I'm in the east Upper - love to watch a Mesa performance whilst sitting next to you - we'd probably come to blows! |
Probably would. I'm in the East Lower next to the wall.
I've seen his heat maps, there's nothing to be concerned about. I wouldn't want my DM charging down the flanks or looking for knock downs from Bony. | |
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| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 19:27 - Dec 4 with 1014 views | jasfan |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 16:22 - Dec 4 by nantywatcher |
I'd hate to be associated with PC's general outlook and thoughts on how we should play, but I would guess he (and the backroom team) view Mesa as a dud. But hey there's still the next match to turn all that around, and if his form was so outstanding last season maybe there is stuff in his locker that'll come to the fore before Christmas. |
I think you are right that the coaching team regard him as a dud signing.
To be honest I don't know anything about his form last season, only that top clubs in Spain were reportedly interested as well, so my expectations were quite high. Based on his limited game time this season, I'd say he has a better passing range than Leon but is nowhere near as good defensively. I also think we look a bit closer to our old identity when has played as he moves the ball on quite quickly. The only other choice for the DM role is Ki and in my opinion that is not his best position. I'd like to see him play at No. 10 (that's on the pitch by the way, not in Downing Street) or at the tip of the diamond if that's the preferred formation.
Surely the way to get the best out of these players until January is to at least play them in their favoured positions. For me that's Leon or Mesa as the DM.
This thread just highlights the imbalance in the types of midfielders in the squad, their mediocrity when compared to those of previous seasons in the Premier League and also their shortcomings.
[Post edited 4 Dec 2017 19:29]
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| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 19:39 - Dec 4 with 995 views | whoflungdung |
The varied views on here evidence just how haphazard was our recruitment .
Four goalkeepers ! | |
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| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 19:51 - Dec 4 with 980 views | TheResurrection |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 19:27 - Dec 4 by jasfan |
I think you are right that the coaching team regard him as a dud signing.
To be honest I don't know anything about his form last season, only that top clubs in Spain were reportedly interested as well, so my expectations were quite high. Based on his limited game time this season, I'd say he has a better passing range than Leon but is nowhere near as good defensively. I also think we look a bit closer to our old identity when has played as he moves the ball on quite quickly. The only other choice for the DM role is Ki and in my opinion that is not his best position. I'd like to see him play at No. 10 (that's on the pitch by the way, not in Downing Street) or at the tip of the diamond if that's the preferred formation.
Surely the way to get the best out of these players until January is to at least play them in their favoured positions. For me that's Leon or Mesa as the DM.
This thread just highlights the imbalance in the types of midfielders in the squad, their mediocrity when compared to those of previous seasons in the Premier League and also their shortcomings.
[Post edited 4 Dec 2017 19:29]
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You see, now that's more than a fair assessment of Mesa which nobody could accuse of being attached to his so called fan club.
The bit that stood out for me was when Mesa plays we look like our old selves. Without doubt we do, that should be clear for everybody to see. And this is the very reason Clement doesn't pick him in my opinion. Because our old way of playing is totally alien to his turgid crap. | |
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| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 19:56 - Dec 4 with 966 views | monmouth |
Clement is Monk v2. Everyone must be miserable and joyless and “work hard” to stay in shape, keep it tight and smash and grab miserable joylass football that the coaching lot are indoctrinating them with.
#badgeman. |  |
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| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 20:11 - Dec 4 with 937 views | plasjack |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 19:56 - Dec 4 by monmouth |
Clement is Monk v2. Everyone must be miserable and joyless and “work hard” to stay in shape, keep it tight and smash and grab miserable joylass football that the coaching lot are indoctrinating them with.
#badgeman. |
Why not relieve your angst and watch Newport at least you would get home sooner. |  | | |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 20:26 - Dec 4 with 923 views | jasfan |
| Tammy was awful yesterday, time for a rethink. on 19:56 - Dec 4 by monmouth |
Clement is Monk v2. Everyone must be miserable and joyless and “work hard” to stay in shape, keep it tight and smash and grab miserable joylass football that the coaching lot are indoctrinating them with.
#badgeman. |
I think you just summed up his approach to the game: " “work hard” to stay in shape, keep it tight and smash and grab ". It's so fu**ing depressing to watch. [Post edited 4 Dec 2017 20:27]
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