QPR's latest limp-wristed, under-committed, unprofessional, shambolic away defeat came at West Ham on Sunday, and must surely leave manager Harry Redknapp's future in doubt.

A chill October wind, and first crisis of the season at QPR, sure signs of a long winter ahead.

Rangers have already run a full gambit of emotions less than two months into the season. Optimism from an eye-catching summer recruitment drive, relief and reassurance from a home win against Sunderland, anger and worry from meek surrenders on the road, concern that an improved performance at Southampton still brought a 2-1 defeat that could have been more severe... And then, at West Ham on Sunday, a familiar despair.

QPR held 52% of the possession against the Hammers, had as many shots on target as the hosts and a further ten off. That absolutely amazes me because from where I was sitting — admittedly in a £45 seat that was below pitch level and offered an earth-worm's eye view of proceedings — they looked pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

For chairman Tony Fernandes, a West Ham fan who could have been perched in the Upton Park director's box in very different circumstances had a cheeky bid for his boyhood club succeeded before he bought QPR instead, this must be mind-blowingly frustrating. In fact, there's no 'must be' about it, a quick glance at the Malaysian's Twitter feed today tells you everything you need to know.

QPR spend more money on wages and transfer fees, and buy more players, than the likes of Swansea, West Brom, West Ham, Sunderland, Stoke and others in the Premier League they presumably see themselves competing against and eventually overtaking. And yet those clubs consistently outperform Rangers in every department, particularly on the field of play. How and why is something Fernandes assured supporters they'd got to grips with last time they were in this league, when QPR finished dead last with just four victories all season. "Lessons learnt, never again" was the rhetoric, and the age, ability and quality of the summer signings suggested this was more than just words. Performances like this, and the chairman’s comments afterwards, show that they still haven’t got the foggiest idea what they’re doing.

This latest loss at West Ham was QPR's fifth from five away games in all competitions in which they've scored once and conceded 14 times. There was no heart to the performance, no obvious signs of ability, no shape, no passion, no tackling. QPR looked to be going through the motions. West Ham — beaten at home by Spurs, Sheffield United and Southampton already this season — won at a canter in third gear. That's being generous actually, at times they turned the engine off completely and coasted along to save fuel.

The home side scored after four minutes from a corner — the fifth time Rangers have conceded from a set piece already this season. Park teams start with their attacking and defensive set pieces. You don’t need to be a good team to defend and attack set pieces competently.

A corner from the lift by Stewart Downing flicked on by Enner Valencia at the near post with an outstretched hand, was turned into his own net at point blank range by Nedum Onuoha, making a first start of the season out of position at right back. Only Robert Green appealed for the handball — possibly because, whatever manager Harry Redknapp and Fernandes said afterwards, Valencia's hands were only raised because he'd been shoved in the back by Charlie Austin and had a goal not been scored referee Anthony Taylor would have possibly awarded a penalty instead.

Rarely can a goal on this ground have been met with such a muted reaction. Only four minutes played, but it already felt inevitable. The away end had been mostly silent before, and was mostly silent afterwards. The West Ham fans cheered with an intensity that should accompany an opening goal in a pre-season friendly against a lower league opponent. There was almost a pitying tone to it.

The second goal was equally as shambolic. Again, a set piece caused the initial problem, but the way James Tomkins — not exactly a fleet-of-foot centre half — was able to drop a shoulder to create space and then hook a ball back over the head of Rob Green and into the net via a touch from Diafra Sakho should embarrass and shame his marker, one Rio Ferdinand. Game over after an hour, although in reality it was done long before.

Ferdinand was the one summer signing that looked like the sort of mistake QPR made two years ago — old, injury prone, with all his achievements behind him, and money in the bank, with nothing to prove and nothing to work for, winding down into retirement with a final pay day. Players who come from Manchester United and Chelsea, where they're surrounded by world class players, often find it tough scrapping out points at QPR but Redknapp and Fernandes were convinced Ferdinand would be different.

QPR fans who got within earshot of the spent former England international at the weekend angrily asked for signed copies of his book, mocking his current schedule which seems to be based rather more around self-promotion, autobiography sales, and telling everybody else in the game what they should be doing with their time and lives rather than working on his own game and helping the club that currently employs him. To be honest, the QPR faithful shouldn't be complaining about his extra-curricular activities because on current form he'd be of much more benefit to the first team if he moved his book signings to clash with the matches.

Ferdinand off signing books, doing television punditry, talking about ambassadorial roles, stirring up controversy. Joey Barton saying Arsenal — who QPR still have to play twice this season — are spineless and lack character. Where's the discipline at this club? Where's the person telling them to shut up and get their own houses in order? Fernandes seems starstruck by the rich footballers and Redknapp doesn't seem arsed. "I don't go in for all that Twitter nonsense," he'll say when asked about these comments, missing the point entirely. There's a reason Gary Neville, Paul Scholes and others only started mouthing off after they finished playing. The tail wags the dog at QPR - the players do as they please, and get paid very handsomely for it.

Many would like to see Onuoha picked at centre half, and wonder why Danny Simpson was sold in the summer. Redknapp was finally asked that question at his weekly steam bath and rub down/press conference with the nation's media on Friday and dismissed both immediately, saying that he believed Onuoha would serve as cover for Mauricio Isla, who has struggled badly since a summer arrival from Juventus. No surprise therefore to see Onuoha picked at right back from the start here — not his best position, in an away game, after no action for months, he predictably struggled. Redknapp will no doubt see it as vindication. To me it looked like he hung him out to dry.

There was enough in the game for the happy clappers to cling to. Charlie Austin found space in the left channel of the penalty box in the first half but could only draw a tame save from the home keeper Adrian when he tried to cutely bend the ball around him into the far corner. In the second half he missed a better chance, firing wide with a snap shot when substitute Bobby Zamora had hammered a low cross into the near post — Zamora, slung on for Junior Hoilett at half time as Rangers tried to fight a Sam Allardyce team with direct, long-ball football. Oh how we laughed. Eventually Redknapp summoned Adel Taarabt to add some craft, but the ball wasn’t being provided to the forwards nearly enough for it to make a difference. QPR had all the tactical awareness and plan of an epileptic gnat trapped under a cup.

Adrian made the save of the game with 20 minutes remaining as Niko Kranjcar's free-kick-masterclass recorded a third, stylish entry after a foul on him by Alex Song. Sadly, 25 yard free kicks remain QPR's best hope of a goal by some distance.

So Harry, and Tony, and those who — aggressively at certain points in certain away games — believe you must be positive and only say positive things about QPR at all times have things to cling to during a two week international break. What if the first goal had been disallowed? What if the Austin chances had gone in? What if Kranjcar had scored? QPR have been reasonably good in their home games and taken four points from three fixtures, it's in W12 where salvation lies, not away from home in a difficult league.

On this evidence, they're clinging to wreckage.

QPR are lethargic. They don't tackle anybody. They don't put up any resistance. They don't hurt anybody, with or without the ball. Sandro, Harry Redknapp's star summer signing, who he'd worked with before, and came with the nickname 'Beast', currently cannot complete 90 minutes, or get near the ball, or tackle anybody. He's a powder puff. Totally unfit and irrelevant. Totally bypassed. Again, manager and chairman seem perplexed why such talented players come to QPR and immediately regress.

The answer, in my opinion, which I've voiced once or twice, is there is no plan, ethos or pride in QPR. It's an advertising vehicle for Air Asia, throwing money at a collection of individuals. The signings this summer were far better than before, but that ethos, plan and strategy just isn't there for them to fit into. Harry Redknapp said he was going to play three at the back this season, and bought accordingly, only to abandon it two games in. That’s as near to a plan as QPR have got. Rangers look rudderless.

The teams that do well in the Premier League, other than the minted Champions league regulars, are not the ones who buy nine players and spend £30m every transfer window, they're the ones with plans, and long term strategies, who only sign players and appoint managers who buy into a style of play.

Which is why Harry Redknapp’s future is largely irrelevant. Stay or go, it’s not going to make a great deal of medium or long term difference.

Redknapp looks like he's half interested - half listening, motionless on the bench, never on the touchline, rarely on the training ground. He looks bored. He was taking calls on his mobile phone in the first half here. Ordinarily a manager leaving is an unsettling time of great upheaval, but apart from removing Bondy Bond's nameplate from the car parking space what exactly would QPR have to do if Redknapp left? He's shown no interest in the youth set up, the facilities, the backroom staff, the medium or long term future of the club, or anything really other than signing players, and selling players. Those asking for stability overestimate the instability that would be created by losing four old men here for themselves, at the end of their careers.

You'd usually say that another manager would struggle coming in between transfer windows to work with somebody else's players, and that should be particularly true of the QPR squad which is populated with Redknapp signings who he's worked with multiple times before. You can place little stock in the PR-influenced quotes from new signings, but the club is at pains to say that every new arrival has come because they want to work with Harry again. Fire him, and presumably you risk them downing tools.

But, in this case, how much different would it really look if they did down tools? QPR are already jogging back into defensive positions rather than sprinting, already failing to concentrate at corners, already giving possession away lazily. Maybe Redknapp's presence is all that stands between this group of players and 6-0 defeats every week but as it stands it's hard to imagine how this team could look like it gives less of a fuck than it did at West Ham on Sunday.

Sky's studio guests Graeme Souness and Gary Neville were scathing in their remarks afterwards, showing a good deal more anger and passion about how awful QPR had been than Redknapp has done all season. Neville called it "diabolical" and ran long video clips of West Ham being allowed to stroke the ball around unopposed, or race into the wide open spaces in front of the QPR defence with hooped midfielders jogging back casually further down the field.

Redknapp says the players aren't fit, the club's pre-season tours and friendlies were a shambles, and the worst summer of preparation he's ever been involved in. At a club where Redknapp is the most senior employee with any football experience, one wonders who else is responsible for this if it's not him? "All bollocks," says Danny Simpson, a QPR player until two months ago. Quite.

But then how much different would it be under a new manager? The clubs' with the plans and strategies make left field appointments which surprise the press and bookies — Ronald Koeman, Mauricio Pochetinno, Michael Laudrup, Brendan Rodgers when he first went to Swansea . QPR don't understand why it's not working, as plainly seen by Tony Fernandes' reaction to this latest defeat, and therefore will almost certainly make the same mistake again.

Redknapp's replacement would be a flavour of the month. Tony Pulis is most people's choice, when a year ago many would have threatened to return their season tickets if he came anywhere near the club. It's likely that the job he's since done at Crystal Palace means his stock is high enough for him to wait for something better than QPR. I'd be amazed if it didn't end up being Tim Sherwood, another who a year ago wouldn't have crossed anybody's mind but now has a mediocre spell in the hotseat at Tottenham, a column in the Independent and an overactive agent on his side and is therefore likely to talk his way in.

Probably not yet. Tony Fernandes sacked Neil Warnock too soon and seems to have been stung by it. He held onto Mark Hughes too long, and his claim that he was "star struck" by Harry Redknapp when he first took over at QPR would suggest he's no intention of jettisoning his manager just yet. That quote is going to be filed alongside his claim that Hughes "interviewed us rather than the other way around" which also looked more stupid with every passing surrender.

In the end it boils down to a change of manager possibly giving QPR enough 'bounce' to stay in touch and stand half a chance of staying up. They'll be in the same situation again in 12 months if they continue to behave and run the club in the same manner, but that bounce may just be enough to keep them among the television money for another 12 months at least. Hell, sacking a manager every three months just to enjoy the potential short-term new manager syndrome is more of a plan than the club currently seems to have for forward progress.

If we're going to continue as we are, the least we could ask for is some enthusiasm from the players and management. Redknapp sat on the bench and said nothing to anybody about anything for the whole of this game as if Rangers were 5-0 down from the first leg. One goal, even five minutes from time, would have put the thing back in the balance, despite the poor performance. Where's the drive and energy from the bench? Some managers seem to know when the time is right to be on the touchline, or in the stand, or in the dug out. When to be loud and animated, when to let the players get on with it. Redknapp sits and does nothing regardless of the score or circumstance. Sometimes it's about sending a message rather than yelling one.

And the least the players could do is run, concentrate, tackle and hold positions. They're jogging around at the moment, and the manager is making excuses for them. How long can Harry Redknapp continue with this "poor fitness" line without somebody asking him what he's doing about it, or how long it's going to take them to get fit, because surely three months of Premier League football should have helped?

I think the moment that summed it up best was midway through the second half when Robert Green was awarded a free kick for a high challenge on him as he came out to claim a corner. He took the free kick himself, rolled it calmly to Enner Valencia standing six yards in front of him, and the West Ham man punted it straight back into the empty net. Green, and QPR, were saved by a little known rule that free kicks, as well as goal kicks, must clear the penalty box before they're touched when awarded inside the area. The peculiar rule, and West Ham's reaction to it, attracted the attention and discussion, but of more interest and concern, was surely what on earth Robert Green was doing with the free kick. Who was he aiming for? Who was he looking at? What was he thinking? Where was the plan? Where was the picture? It was an unfathomable piece of play.

A microcosm if ever you needed one. Heart breaking. Soul destroying.

Links >>> Photo Gallery >>> Ratings and Reports >>> Message Board Match Thread

West Ham: Adrian 6; Jenkinson 6, Tomkins 7, Reid 7, Cresswell 7; Song 8, Zárate 7 (Nolan 76, 6), Amalfitano 6; Downing 8; Valencia 7 (Jarvis 85, -) Sakho 8

Subs not used: Jääskeläinen, Poyet, Cole, Burke, Lee

Goals: Onuoha own goal 4 (assisted Downing), Sakho 59 (assisted Tomkins)

Bookings: Tomkins 48 (foul), Cresswell 82 (foul)

QPR: Green 5; Onuoha 5, Caulker 6, Ferdinand 4, Traore 5; Henry 5, Sandro 4 (Taarabt 67, 6); Hoilett 4 (Zamora 46, 6), Fer 5, Kranjcar 6 (Mutch 78, 5); Austin 5

Subs not used: McCarthy, Isla, Dunne, Vargas

Bookings: Sandro 13 (foul), Henry 88 (foul)

QPR Star Man — Steven Caulker 6 Looks like he cares and he’s trying. Therefore, man of the match.

Referee — Anthony Taylor (Cheshire) 6 Here’s something I seem to be saying a lot — nothing to referee, because QPR were so uncompetitive, but he was ok dealing with the bits and pieces that came along. The first goal isn’t something he’ll look back on fondly.

Attendance 34,907 (2,000 QPR approx) All the atmosphere of a pre-season game. The West Ham fans knew they’d won from the first minute, and didn’t rub it in too much. The QPR fans were mostly silent. Less of the aggro than we saw at the Southampton game, a blessed relief. Stewards asking people with £45 seats below pitch level to sit down, offering a view of a concrete wall in front of them, raised noise and hackles more than anything else on the pitch.

The Twitter @loftforwords

The Pictures — Action Images

Photo: Action Images

AgedR added 23:28 - Oct 6 Soul destroying is spot on. I'm not sure they'll be much singing of TF's name for a while. The remarkably long honeymoon may finally be over. What is it they say about fooling all of the people some if the time? Prepare for a new Warren Farm/Old Oak Common/Hoops width/Price of a pint charm offensive.
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Kaos_Agent added 23:38 - Oct 6 Boring to watch. Harry must have thought so too. We still do not look a threat to score from open play. Hoilett was one of the few trying to create something in attack in the first half, even if it did come to nought.
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NathanNI added 23:39 - Oct 6 An accurate and unfortunately depressing review of another futile day following Rangers. Time for the chairman to make some decisions for the good of the club, and not his other motives that are there for all to see.
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TacticalR added 23:53 - Oct 6 Thanks for your report. Last season was based on defending for dear life and Charlie nicking the odd goal. This season that plan is not working because we can't defend and we can't score. We looked sluggish and devoid of ideas, although maybe not quite as bad as some have made out. However, it feels like once we go a goal behind we've had it. We also let Downing have a field day as he sat deep pinging out long passes from the back. Ferdinand. Looks fine when he's acting as sweeper with nobody near him, but when defending he looks like he is running in slow motion and seems incapable of handling the physical side of the game (as was obvious for the second goal). Fer. I thought he played OK, but for some reason he seems to be the fall guy for all our failings. Traoré. Hops about like a demented rabbit, is never in control of the ball, and can't stop crosses coming in. Kranjčar. Remorselessly targeted by West Ham as our linking player. For some reason the ref let them get away with a lot of tackles from behind on Kranjčar. Decent free-kick which I am glad he took rather than let Taarabt take over. Green. When he made that crazy pass out from the back to Valencia, it looked like he'd completely lost his head. Zamora. We definitely looked better when he came on as he's a hold-up man who can bring other players into the game. Austin. No clear cut chances, although it would have been good if he could have put Zamora's cross away. Onuoha. A mixed game. At times looked cumbersome on the ball, but also went on a few runs from the back that seemed to catch out the opposition.

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AussieRs added 01:05 - Oct 7 Thanks Clive - excellent summary. The one thing you expect from professionals is that they should try. There certainly seemed little real effort, apart from a few such as Austin and Onuoha who "ran about for 90 mins". Kranjcar tried to create things but looked slow and was very closely attended. Taarabt only other real injection of creativity and enthusiasm along with some good hold-up play by Zamora in second half. But overall performance was shambolic and sad. What now? We desperately need a manager who can first motivate professionals to do their job. They then need to create some organisation around the team and the way they need to play. Doesn't look like Harry is keen to do much of either at the moment. Doesn't look like Tony F is in firing mode either. Wait for the January window - Crouch, Defoe, more of Harry's old school? Would they come if we are already adrift and would it be too late? Finding it hard to watch as this unfolds. It is Mental Health Week here in Australia. Irony.

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RangerKIK added 02:39 - Oct 7 The highlights of this game should be in black and white with 1950's horror movie graphics over the top. 'Be Afraid', 'Chilling', 'A Real Horrorfest Coming To A Ground Near You Soon' etc, etc. I watched it as such, metaphorically from behind the sofa through the gap in my fingers. My other club supporting friends over the last few days have just phoned up and laughed. No words needed to be exchanged as we all know what they mean. Anyone who does suck any positives out of this game is not taking into account that West Ham weren't really trying. And how do we repeatedly go into games with no gameplan, as far as I can see, is shocking at this level?! What is it about QPR that sucks the mojo out of good players. Yes Caulker was probably our best player on the day but even he looks frightened and half the player he was last season. And Harry show some passion for pet's sake chap! I think the mobile phone call he received during the first half was from the 'Excuses R Us Hotline' saying he had exceeded his limit already this month and did he want to pay for a top up. You want the players to be slaughtered by the press and the fans and take that anger/humiliation and use it to create a fire in their belly and come out all guns blazing for the next game. To stand tall and act like men...... I really hope I am wrong but I just can't see it. '3 chins' record managing QPR is played 30 won 6 I believe. Got to love that 'stability'!!!! Come on Rangers find some passion and pride, please, otherwise after the next batch of games we could be a drift at the bottom of the league. TF time for big decisions chap!!

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QPR_ARG added 02:49 - Oct 7 Forgot to mention this last week. I was watching Southampton-QPR for the second time (yes! I have a very big huevos!) because I wanted to see just how bad Sandro's injury was. Anyway...after I see him rolling around for a while, the camera cuts to Harry's face. He's there. Legs and arms crossed. He's staring at the player saying nothing. No expression. No nothing. Until, a little while later -like a full 2 minutes after Sandro's knock- he asks the man sitting next to him: "That's Sandro?". The man just nods. And Harry says something like "Fcukin'ell" or a similar one. From the touchline. A straight line to were the player was. A player he has worked with in the past. The only bald player we had on the pitch at the moment. Falling in an area of the pitch where he normally plays. And he can't tell who that is. Or give a fcuk about what happened to him. I have never wanted him to run my favourite football team in the world. Now I just simply hate his guts.

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062259 added 03:00 - Oct 7 Three of the next four games are against Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester City. The other one is home to Aston Villa. Impossible to see any points accrued except against Villa. Beat Villa and it will be 7 points from 11 games, lose or draw and it will be 4/5 from 11. That basically got Hughes the bullet. Redknapp's only chance of being around beyond the first week of November is a win against Villa and vastly improved performances against the big boys. Not a chance. The vultures are circling....there will be blood.

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062259 added 03:41 - Oct 7 P.S. McLaren anyone?
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NW5Hoop added 07:57 - Oct 7 The club is a shambles, from the very top to the very bottom. How much longer are TF's admirers going to tell us we're lucky to have a man who has set the club up in such a chaotic way?
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Silverfoxqpr added 08:53 - Oct 7 Something not mentioned thus far is the perpetual tinkering of the starting 11. Adding fuel to the fire I know in respect of Harry not knowing what he's doing and yes we've been here before both last season and this but where was Phillips? And what exactly had Vargas done wrong? Tombola tactics indeed.
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Discodroids added 09:25 - Oct 7 good stuff. my low point was the traore pass straight into touch after the nolan chance in the 85th minute, west ham laughter ringing in my ears.not good.not good at all. i was shocked when i saw a piece that souness hightlighted that led to that nolan chance....a west ham midfielder was running away from our goal , no pressure from us, allowed to turn run back in to our half and ping a ball out to the left...incredible. kenny jackett for me.

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qprninja added 09:39 - Oct 7 It says it all when Taarabt is the only one showing any passion or interest. Worrying times. Also, there is the spectre of potentially not being allowed back into the football league next season if we go down. Is Les Ferdinand joining the club in some capacity does anyone know?
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HastingsRanger added 10:34 - Oct 7 This was seriously very poor. As well as the Green moment (the ball was barely going to leave the box) was the extraordinary moment where we had 3 left backs all in a line. We were in possession and they passed to each other (going backwards) until Traore nearly lost it. This is shambolic. It is difficult to see how this can be turned around, as rightly pointed out it seems that Rednapp is disinterested on the touchline, so what can we expect of the players. There also seems to be belief that certain games are write offs and then we will up our game and win the 'winnables'. Anyone in any sport knows that this is amateurish. I really think that Ferdinand needs to be dropped and get the Onouha / Caulker partnership going. Only positives were Traore had a fair first half, Niko tried under duress and Zamora looked like he can do his cameo role. But this is against a lower mid-table team not in form! Deep down I would like to see us competing in the Premiership, maybe as Hull, Swansea or Stoke manage to. My fears now are after the Warren Farm set back, Old Oak set back and what seems to be relegation form already that will leave the cash cow of TF pulling out and us becoming a Portsmouth. This is bad. PS Thanks for the report, Clive, tough times to keep up this service.

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probbo added 11:14 - Oct 7 Thanks for the report Clive. Our team looks like a bunch of rabbits in the headlights every time they take to the field. And the results, particularly away from home will start to breed a losing mentality, just as it works the other way. On Sunday they looked beaten after 5 minutes. Another really shocking team display and no one putting even a half decent shift in. I think TF must view Redknapp as a trophy asset, 'manager of my team, great bloke to hang out with' etc but he can't be blind to what's going on on and off the pitch and where this is all leading. The other disappointment for me is Hoddle - I really thought he might be able to inject some tactical nous in to the team but that's clearly not been the case so far. Worrying times it must be said.

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YorkRanger added 12:04 - Oct 7 Completely demoralising and its hard to sustain any interest or enthusiasm at present I'm all for stability and continuity as a principle, however it does feel that it is time for a change.
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BrusselsHoop added 12:48 - Oct 7 Thanks Clive. The first half was indeed a total shambles. I thought we improved in the second but that's not saying much! I too thought the Summer signings seemed positive. I cannot understand how 2 Chilean internationals who play very, very well for their country can play so poorly for us. It must be down to the training and coaching. Also we seem to have lost the bottle and togetherness we had at the end of last season. Fingers crossed we get this back soon or it will be a long, hard Winter.

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jj77 added 13:12 - Oct 7 "Fire him, and presumably you risk them downing tools. But, in this case, how much different would it really look if they did down tools?" Nail hit firmly on the head. I am a little suprised you didn't mention Leroy Fer - for me, he was the least committed player on the pitch, completely disinterested. I do also think Hoillett's 4 is a tad harsh - he's never been a clever player but I thought he at least tried to beat his man and showed a bit of endeavour.

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Antti_Heinola added 13:49 - Oct 7 Great report Clive. The worrying thing is, as you sort of say in between the lines, is that we do need a new manager, someone to grab the club by the scruff of the neck, have a plan, and work at all levels to make that plan work. These days, that's probably not one person's job anymore. It needs a manager, a Sporting Director and an Academy Head all in sync and working towards the same goal. We have NOTHING like that, and we never will while Redknapp is in charge, because he has no interest in all that cr@p. Why should he? Even in a best case scenario he'll be out the club in 2 years, so what's in it for him? Those are his thought processes. So, to get to the worrying bit - when he goes - and it is a 'when' because he and Bondy Bond are incapable of turning this around, so it'll either be this week, in a month, or more likely in January or the end of the season, we KNOW that what TF will do is probably try for Pulis but end up with Sherwood, who will be a catastrophe and absolutely the last thing we need. Disco is actually right - the guy for us, and it will be seen as a very boring choice, is Kenny Jackett. Possibly for three or four seasons before then really becoming the club's supremo and guiding it forward at all levels, while a younger coach takes over. Failing that, someone like Eddie Howe if he's up for building a club, or Karl Robinson would be good picks. Warnock will be available again next summer and could certainly take up a consultant role looking at the overall structure of the club. But all that takes time, and time is not what TF and his backers have - they've always wanted success immediately, and that's what is destroying the club. I like Tony, he is doing his best, but it's dreadfully misguided. The day Bernie and Flavio turned down Amit's offer was the day things started getting really rotten at the club.

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dixiedean added 18:50 - Oct 7 Clive, as always I agree with virtually every word you write. Fundamentally the club is currently like a dysfunctional school where the head teacher doesn't give a toss and the pupils take drugs in the playground. We have no discipline. Not of the red card variety, but as professionals. For me the whole season so far was summed up by Rio getting his plaque at Man U. It was wrong on every level - showing us up as a meaningless club just there to make up the numbers. It was a clever distraction, like Chelscum did to Drogba in last season's Chumps lge game. So how can Rio possibly be focused on playing when he's more interested in signing books, appearing on MOTD or whatever other non-playing shite he gets up to at our expense ? and then on my way home on Friday night I hear Gobshite Barton on radio 5 slagging off Arsenal for having no spine. So Joey, what kind of spine do we have then, mate ? Why is he allowed to do that ? That said, he does at least have some fire in his belly when he plays, unlike Fer , who was fabulous v S'land but awful in every other game and basically can't be arsed to chase or tackle as if he's above that menial task. I disagree with Tactical R - he's not the fall guy, but a highly paid new recruit who has performed once in 6 games. And please don't give me this lack of fitness crap. If you think about it, are we not back to where we were with Hughes ? No guts, no fight, prima donnas who don't put in a shift , new signings waiting to " gel " and lame excuses from management. As Antii said, Howe & Robinson are 2 names I have often thought of, but we never have time to give someone like that a chance to build a dynasty with proper roots as we're always chasing our tails to go up or stay up and no time to consolidate.And so the cycle goes on. Always seeking the quick fix. I actually can't bear the thought of what will happen at De Brijj. 6-0 ? 8-0 ? And TF- tickets now available on open sale. That tells you all you need to know. They should sell like hot-cakes, esp as it's not live on TV, yet we can't shift them. What will Costa do to this shambles ? Maybe he should have to play in a onesey to slow him down.

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Burnleyhoop added 19:48 - Oct 7 Ok, so we are powder puff in defence and totally toothless up front, but there were signs for the first 20 minutes of the second half that there is some ability. If we had snatched an equaliser rather than conceding another unbelievably soft goal, it might have spurred us on a bit rather than completely deflating us. Our confidence is shot at and we're missing key players, but if we get all the new boys out on the pitch and perhaps give Tarrabt a starting slot to provide some impetus and flair, we still have a chance of staying up. Once the confidence goes, lethargy sets in, been there and done that on a personal level. Hoddle, Black and now Ferdinand have to start earning their wages too. Personally I would drop Ferdinand and Green and revert to the originally intended 3-5-2 formation with onuoha and Caulker either side of hill or Dunne. We need to show some determination and fighting spirit and it needs to start against Liverpool. Come on you R's, it's no time to lie down and surrender, show us what you are made of for fooks sake !!

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Monahoop added 20:48 - Oct 7 It must be hard to write a good constructive piece after that diabolical showing, but you have done just that Clive at least to the best of your ability. My sentiments run parallel with York Ranger's. A total feeling of numbness and emptiness. Not since we played under Houston imo, have we looked so consistently lethargic. I gave up going to Loftus Road while he was in charge. We now have a manager who in the past inspired at some clubs, but looks totally burnt out with us, but is too proud to throw the towel in, coupled with an owner who seems reluctant to deal with him. I've said on some threads on the forum that this club is rotten throughout and I can't see any brightness at the end of the long dark abyss that this club seems to have fallen into. It does not deserve at present to be in the Premier League. The football is embarrassing and laughable for this level. Even Derby in their infamous 12pt season tried to make a fight of things much of the time. Time for a change, yet again, but who with? I've been toying with the notion of Bilic, a colourful character who manages with passion,and we've not seen that since Mr Warnock arrived. That's just my take on things, but what do I know. Does Mr Fernandes know any better?

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extratimeR added 23:02 - Oct 7 Grim. I think we are heading towards a repeat of that dire night at Home to Ipswich a few years back. Spoke to all the lads after the game, never known such pure anger at Redknapps attitude . He is treating us with contempt. Thanks Clive.
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SimonJames added 23:51 - Oct 7 " Hell, sacking a manager every three months just to enjoy the potential short-term new manager syndrome is more of a plan than the club currently seems to have for forward progress." Funny, but sadly probably true.
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TrulyHooped added 11:00 - Oct 9 I know that the game and our performance was crap and there wasn't much on the pitch to cheer, but why do 'some supporters' feel the only way to motivate the team is to abuse the West Ham fans in the adjoining tier and make offensive signs at them. From where I sat at the back I could clearly see supporters who did not sit down the whole game and spent most of the match looking to their left. I felt sorry for the parents who had spent a small fortune but whose kids were surrounded by offensive language and disillusioned chanting. As for us not being mastered by Chelsea? Seriously?? Can you see this bunch of players registering anything but a humiliating defeat in a few weeks? How long ago Wembley and that Bobby Zamora moment seem.

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