| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! 15:27 - Nov 3 with 19133 views | NOTRAC |
Although the 2014 accounts have not been published and submitted to Companies House in respect of Swansea City AFC ,the Trust has just published their 2014 accounts on their new website.
From these one thing stands out.The Trust has received a further dividend for the 2014 year of £210,000 which means that a total dividend of £1m has been declared and paid to all the shareholders.
This means that for each £100,000 originally invested by each shareholder they have now received a Return of £300,000, that is, three times their original investments.
If it is true that they are also looking to sell their shares to the American investors there is only one thing that can be said about them
They are greedy bastards who are no different to Mr Petty, the man they once decried.
Surely they should now do a Mel Nurse, and gift their shares back to the club, and prove that they are men of integrity and not the crap that they appear to be turning into. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:06 - Nov 4 with 1368 views | Private_Partz |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 08:48 - Nov 4 by icecoldjack |
Im no expert on any of this thats for sure.
What i will say is that reading this thread makes me proud as fook in being a jack and knowing there are some smart cookies out there asking searching questions is one the reasons the club has achieved what it has.
As said above, it sets us apart from other clubs .
Anyone wanting to speculate on scfc is looking to accumalate thats the bottom line for me, the details can sometimes fog the true intemt.
The more searchimg the questions the better it is for our club.
Just what questions need to be asked,well, im not really clever enough to ask them myself which is why imfimd this thread superb .
Its a wake up call to everyome though and for me its good to know some of our support hasnt forgotton the lomg hard road that built our success. |
Yep seconded.
I am not expert either and let's hope we can scrutinise any offer if indeed any does reach the table.
I would say the only attraction in taking over our club is that we come relatively cheaply. There are no debts to fund and the Prem money rolls in so it must be an attraction.
On the downside (or upside :-)) we do not own our ground. It is also situated in an area where it seems to me the land is not of great value other than another Barretts site. The Vetch is in potentially a much more lucrative area and look what has happened there. No buyers and it is now an allotment.
Where the club is attractive is it could be a massive marketing tool for any big corporation. Any investment would be crucial to remaining in the Prem so potentially the investors and supporters could be singing from the same hymn sheet albeit for different reasons.
This is just one optimistic option however and I fully support those who raise the dangers of any takeover. There have been far too many disasters for any complacency on the part of the supporters. |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:30 - Nov 4 with 1315 views | MoscowJack |
I think one of the most understated points is this.....
1/ Directors sell and pocket north of £79m for their 79% once the whole sale is completed. That's a lot of money.
2/ New potential owner "loan" the Club £25m-£30m for stadium expansion, etc.
Not only will we be in new hands, but we have no idea what their future intentions are.
We will have a lot of debt (not huge while we're in the PL, but massive if/when we get relegated) which could be avoided.
- Are the new owners going to increase revenue from their marketing expertise abroad, or just sit and wait for the new TV deal which could see us quickly become valued at 30%-50% more than we are being valued by them now?
- Do they intend to use the "debt" to buy the stadium? This is usually one way of making a club look more attractive on the market. Or will most be used to expand a stadium that we don't own and finish off other projects?
There are so many unanswered questions - it would be good to have a Q&A with HJ when the time is right because we're in the dark, to some extent, at the moment. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:37 - Nov 4 with 1308 views | jacksinceever |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:06 - Nov 4 by Private_Partz |
Yep seconded.
I am not expert either and let's hope we can scrutinise any offer if indeed any does reach the table.
I would say the only attraction in taking over our club is that we come relatively cheaply. There are no debts to fund and the Prem money rolls in so it must be an attraction.
On the downside (or upside :-)) we do not own our ground. It is also situated in an area where it seems to me the land is not of great value other than another Barretts site. The Vetch is in potentially a much more lucrative area and look what has happened there. No buyers and it is now an allotment.
Where the club is attractive is it could be a massive marketing tool for any big corporation. Any investment would be crucial to remaining in the Prem so potentially the investors and supporters could be singing from the same hymn sheet albeit for different reasons.
This is just one optimistic option however and I fully support those who raise the dangers of any takeover. There have been far too many disasters for any complacency on the part of the supporters. |
If a true investor with multi millions came in and had an eye to the future, they would IMO:
1 - Buy the stadium and all and any rights that go with it;
2 - Buy the club and and any other assets (Landore & Fairwood training facilities);
3 - Buy any of the industrial units in the local vicinity as they become available;
4 - When in the future the leases for the Morfa shops run out and those companies start looking for new and better retail outlets (as happened in Parc Tawe, the old B&Q in Llansamlet, etc), and these buildings lie empty and ripe for buying cheaply, do so;
5 - Eventually redevelop the whole area, either with Swans in situ if they are doing well, or without them if they have sunk to the lower reaches again by then
In short, my belief is that any foreign or outward investors will not care one jot for the future of Swansea City FC |  | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:49 - Nov 4 with 1294 views | Shaky |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 07:24 - Nov 4 by Phil_S |
All the consultation will have to be done with a level of knowledge. We cannot take anyone's view without at least giving them some detail as to what is happening, what the options are and possibly even what our recommendation is from the experts we have been consulting with
"Again, I'm assuming that if an investor is happy to keep the trust around, it wouldn't even be an issue? "
An interesting question. Now if they said they wanted to work with us then I guess there wouldn't be an issue but there may still be a question of do we work with them with less shares and the cash in the bank from the sale of those. Not saying that is the plan or the strategy but we need to make everyone aware of all the options during a consultation
As I said technically (and legally) we do not need to take this to a consultation process, it is clear that the Trust board is set up to make these decisions on the behalf of the membership. However, I would not be comfortable that the decision was taken without the consultation and I don't think there are many on the Trust board who would be
Without banging jackonicko's drum for him, the time to join the Trust is now |
So Phil, it looks like your team have been following the trail of nuts I laid out for you over the weekend. Good.
Second step would be to secure the Trust's longer term position and I would suggest the following mechanism: Any new shares issued by the club are to be a new class, with subscription to the currently issued series of ordinary shares now closed, except with the agreement of the relevant qualified majority needed to approve the key corporate actions (subject to negotiation).
The purpose of this would not only be to protect the Trust's position within the capital structure, but also to reflect the new investor's presumed commitment to invest in the future of the club.
As such new investment would be viewed as a form of subordinated debt, that I would propose to structure as Redeemable Preference Shares on something along the lines of the following summary terms:
Amount: As required
Redemption: At the discretion of the board.
Coupon: 1.5-2.5%, with the option to be paid as PIK shares (Payment In Kind) of an identical class
Voting Rights: Doesn't matter as long as the consent of the relevant majority of existing shares is required
Preference: Liquidation rights
In addition you should require a Right of First Refusal on any future sale of a controlling stake in the club by the new investor (including through the use of options, etc), as well as customary Cosale/Tag Along rights, with Drag Along obviously excluded.
In return you should be prepared to exchange your existing shares in the club for a Newco vehicle with identical corporate governance arrangements to those agreed. You should also accept that any stadium investment may be financed with project financing as monmouth suggested, provided this is structured with new equity leveraged according to customary norms.
Thank you and good night. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:59 - Nov 4 with 1260 views | Lord_Bony |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:37 - Nov 4 by jacksinceever |
If a true investor with multi millions came in and had an eye to the future, they would IMO:
1 - Buy the stadium and all and any rights that go with it;
2 - Buy the club and and any other assets (Landore & Fairwood training facilities);
3 - Buy any of the industrial units in the local vicinity as they become available;
4 - When in the future the leases for the Morfa shops run out and those companies start looking for new and better retail outlets (as happened in Parc Tawe, the old B&Q in Llansamlet, etc), and these buildings lie empty and ripe for buying cheaply, do so;
5 - Eventually redevelop the whole area, either with Swans in situ if they are doing well, or without them if they have sunk to the lower reaches again by then
In short, my belief is that any foreign or outward investors will not care one jot for the future of Swansea City FC |
But surely that could only happen with a 100% shareholding.
As far as I am aware that is not what we are talking about. The best scenario for the club would be to release a maximum of 49% stake holding in SCFC .Therefore they would always have the upper hand in where the club is going.the sale of these shares would raise extra money for inward investment and make even more money would be the plan.
I don't think they would be talking about a 100% buyout as there doesn't seem to be much sense in that unless it was mega mega bucks with some form of control. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:09 - Nov 4 with 1234 views | jacksinceever |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:59 - Nov 4 by Lord_Bony |
But surely that could only happen with a 100% shareholding.
As far as I am aware that is not what we are talking about. The best scenario for the club would be to release a maximum of 49% stake holding in SCFC .Therefore they would always have the upper hand in where the club is going.the sale of these shares would raise extra money for inward investment and make even more money would be the plan.
I don't think they would be talking about a 100% buyout as there doesn't seem to be much sense in that unless it was mega mega bucks with some form of control. |
My fear is that, whilst I do not pretend to know the personal financial situations of our directors, if say you or me were worth £300k and some Arab sheik or American offers us £2 million to effectively walk away from the club (thus securing our personal and family futures), would we turn it down.
I don't believe we could.
Nor could the majority of the Swans board IMO, if their individual prices were met | | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:15 - Nov 4 with 1224 views | MoscowJack |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:09 - Nov 4 by jacksinceever |
My fear is that, whilst I do not pretend to know the personal financial situations of our directors, if say you or me were worth £300k and some Arab sheik or American offers us £2 million to effectively walk away from the club (thus securing our personal and family futures), would we turn it down.
I don't believe we could.
Nor could the majority of the Swans board IMO, if their individual prices were met |
And reality is that the numbers you quotes are about 1/5 of the real numbers. Even harder to turn down.
But, using your example, what if you were worth £300k, a billionaire offered you £2m but you only took £1.6m and gave £400k to protect the Trust?
That would ensure (a) your integrity is still in place so you can walk around Swansea with your head held high, (b) that you're still FAR wealthier than you would have been if it wasn't for the Swans and finally (c) the enjoyable Jack to a King film isn't even more inaccurate than it already is. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:23 - Nov 4 with 1201 views | _ |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:15 - Nov 4 by MoscowJack |
And reality is that the numbers you quotes are about 1/5 of the real numbers. Even harder to turn down.
But, using your example, what if you were worth £300k, a billionaire offered you £2m but you only took £1.6m and gave £400k to protect the Trust?
That would ensure (a) your integrity is still in place so you can walk around Swansea with your head held high, (b) that you're still FAR wealthier than you would have been if it wasn't for the Swans and finally (c) the enjoyable Jack to a King film isn't even more inaccurate than it already is. |
But Nick, why do you think that is even an option? |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:25 - Nov 4 with 1201 views | longlostjack |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:15 - Nov 4 by MoscowJack |
And reality is that the numbers you quotes are about 1/5 of the real numbers. Even harder to turn down.
But, using your example, what if you were worth £300k, a billionaire offered you £2m but you only took £1.6m and gave £400k to protect the Trust?
That would ensure (a) your integrity is still in place so you can walk around Swansea with your head held high, (b) that you're still FAR wealthier than you would have been if it wasn't for the Swans and finally (c) the enjoyable Jack to a King film isn't even more inaccurate than it already is. |
That would be the ideal scenario if the "investor" went along with it. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:37 - Nov 4 with 1172 views | Uxbridge |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:23 - Nov 4 by _ |
But Nick, why do you think that is even an option? |
We can only hope those same people who have made great capital from saying they are honourable custodians of our football club and enjoyed significant goodwill as a result will continue to act in that same way  . |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:39 - Nov 4 with 1165 views | bluenile |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:59 - Nov 4 by Lord_Bony |
But surely that could only happen with a 100% shareholding.
As far as I am aware that is not what we are talking about. The best scenario for the club would be to release a maximum of 49% stake holding in SCFC .Therefore they would always have the upper hand in where the club is going.the sale of these shares would raise extra money for inward investment and make even more money would be the plan.
I don't think they would be talking about a 100% buyout as there doesn't seem to be much sense in that unless it was mega mega bucks with some form of control. |
The real problem in selling a 49% stake in anything and then thinking you have control is that it only takes a 2% swing to change everything. I would imagine that anyone with lots of money and a 49% stake would have no trouble in buying that 2% by offering a large amount of money for that 2%. Believe me, somebody will 'cave in' and take it. |  |
| Open the ipod bay doors Hal |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:44 - Nov 4 with 1155 views | _ |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:37 - Nov 4 by Uxbridge |
We can only hope those same people who have made great capital from saying they are honourable custodians of our football club and enjoyed significant goodwill as a result will continue to act in that same way . |
Ok, let me ask in another [obvious] way....
Why would the investor ever entertain such a deal?
Surely they'd say "huh, buy a chunk of an enterprise and have noisy supporters questioning my every move - no thanks"
Again, surely, that option means no deals in the first place and we stay as we are anyway?
Or am I missing something obvious? | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:48 - Nov 4 with 1133 views | Lord_Bony |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:39 - Nov 4 by bluenile |
The real problem in selling a 49% stake in anything and then thinking you have control is that it only takes a 2% swing to change everything. I would imagine that anyone with lots of money and a 49% stake would have no trouble in buying that 2% by offering a large amount of money for that 2%. Believe me, somebody will 'cave in' and take it. |
Well that's up to the board and the legal boys to make sure such a move would be illegal as it is a breach of contract.
If worded properly it could nt be done. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:50 - Nov 4 with 1127 views | Uxbridge |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:44 - Nov 4 by _ |
Ok, let me ask in another [obvious] way....
Why would the investor ever entertain such a deal?
Surely they'd say "huh, buy a chunk of an enterprise and have noisy supporters questioning my every move - no thanks"
Again, surely, that option means no deals in the first place and we stay as we are anyway?
Or am I missing something obvious? |
Well that'd be fine with me. I don't see any need for a change in ownership structure.
You're right though. A stronger Trust (or anyone else remaining on board for that matter) makes the club less attractive to speculators. I think that's a good thing, although if anyone was desperate to make some money it wouldn't be from their point of view. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:10 - Nov 4 with 1086 views | Joe_bradshaw |
The fan's forum in London on Dec. 5th could be very interesting indeed.
I understand that Leigh Dineen is attending. Will there be anyone else from the board?
It's unfortunate now that it's on the Friday night when the game is on Sunday. I expect there are many like me who are going to the game but will not be in London on Friday night.
Hopefully there will be plenty of SEALS there to ask the pertinent questions. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:13 - Nov 4 with 1072 views | _ |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 10:50 - Nov 4 by Uxbridge |
Well that'd be fine with me. I don't see any need for a change in ownership structure.
You're right though. A stronger Trust (or anyone else remaining on board for that matter) makes the club less attractive to speculators. I think that's a good thing, although if anyone was desperate to make some money it wouldn't be from their point of view. |
So my point again and apologies to keep repeating myself....
That is "not" the proposed deal on the table... So why are we discussing it as an option? | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:14 - Nov 4 with 1070 views | MoscowJack |
The Trust event has been moved to the Saturday night now....the night before the game. [Post edited 4 Nov 2014 11:33]
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:21 - Nov 4 with 1027 views | Lord_Bony |
An outside investment could be looked at if the Supporters Trust increased it shareholding from 21% to something much stronger,thus consolidating it s position of strength. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:24 - Nov 4 with 1019 views | Darran |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:10 - Nov 4 by Joe_bradshaw |
The fan's forum in London on Dec. 5th could be very interesting indeed.
I understand that Leigh Dineen is attending. Will there be anyone else from the board?
It's unfortunate now that it's on the Friday night when the game is on Sunday. I expect there are many like me who are going to the game but will not be in London on Friday night.
Hopefully there will be plenty of SEALS there to ask the pertinent questions. |
You can be assured that the most vociferous keyboard warriors won't be there to ask any questions whatsoever. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:26 - Nov 4 with 1012 views | Private_Partz |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 09:37 - Nov 4 by jacksinceever |
If a true investor with multi millions came in and had an eye to the future, they would IMO:
1 - Buy the stadium and all and any rights that go with it;
2 - Buy the club and and any other assets (Landore & Fairwood training facilities);
3 - Buy any of the industrial units in the local vicinity as they become available;
4 - When in the future the leases for the Morfa shops run out and those companies start looking for new and better retail outlets (as happened in Parc Tawe, the old B&Q in Llansamlet, etc), and these buildings lie empty and ripe for buying cheaply, do so;
5 - Eventually redevelop the whole area, either with Swans in situ if they are doing well, or without them if they have sunk to the lower reaches again by then
In short, my belief is that any foreign or outward investors will not care one jot for the future of Swansea City FC |
All fair comments and it could happen.
My take is Swansea is on it's arse. Out of town shopping is fast becoming a thing of the past so all these potential assets which we do not yet own would not be worth very much at all. Your point about the the big empty stores backs this up.
Against this background, and looking at it in with very rose tinted glasses, I could see us being a very useful marketing tool. Maybe even along the lines of Philips / PSV Eindhoven.
As for the rest of it I leave that to Shaky, Lisa and the 'technical team'. :-) | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:43 - Nov 4 with 975 views | Uxbridge |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:13 - Nov 4 by _ |
So my point again and apologies to keep repeating myself....
That is "not" the proposed deal on the table... So why are we discussing it as an option? |
As there isn't a concrete deal on the table just yet, then I don't see the harm in suggesting scenarios. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:43 - Nov 4 with 973 views | Uxbridge |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:24 - Nov 4 by Darran |
You can be assured that the most vociferous keyboard warriors won't be there to ask any questions whatsoever. |
You going?  | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:45 - Nov 4 with 963 views | perchrockjack |
My issue on this thread is that we seem to have so many seeing themselves as better financially equipped to run our club. They cant,ergo we have to trust the people who ve done us proud although reading the constant bitching from Monks appointment, Dineen s tweets, the dividends , you d think we have a board of Blackpool proportions.
We re not talking about taking money from the club but money earned on investment which is business and football IS a business and all businesses need to grow.
I read "we don't need further investment" s after that I simply got down on my knees to pray that our current board don't have that mindset.
It would be something if those accountants, businessmen, solicitors etc on our fan base were to go to the meeting and advise the Board on what best to do.
It seems many on here know what NOT to do but what TO do and that s the most crucial matter. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:48 - Nov 4 with 959 views | _ |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 11:43 - Nov 4 by Uxbridge |
As there isn't a concrete deal on the table just yet, then I don't see the harm in suggesting scenarios. |
If you were John Moores with a few billion in your back pocket - would you be looking at a deal that would involve a * "poxy"supporters Trust?
* I use the word poxy not from my way of thinking, but his!
I could be wrong, I hope I am, but I fail to see why we are even discussing that scenario when it comes to this "investor". | |
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