| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 12:01 - Feb 3 with 1420 views | union_jack |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 11:37 - Feb 3 by Lohengrin |
I’m not sure I follow you here? |
OK. You answered the initial question in this thread - what the hell us wrong with people? - with ‘Islam’.
But it’s the fundamental aspect of it, the misinterpretation of it that is the real problem, not Islam itself. |  |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 12:08 - Feb 3 with 1407 views | Highjack |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 12:01 - Feb 3 by union_jack |
OK. You answered the initial question in this thread - what the hell us wrong with people? - with ‘Islam’.
But it’s the fundamental aspect of it, the misinterpretation of it that is the real problem, not Islam itself. |
This may be an ecumenical matter but who is to say which “interpretation” is correct?
Let’s be honest religion isn’t something that even the scholars can agree on. |  |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 12:28 - Feb 3 with 1402 views | union_jack |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 12:08 - Feb 3 by Highjack |
This may be an ecumenical matter but who is to say which “interpretation” is correct?
Let’s be honest religion isn’t something that even the scholars can agree on. |
Yes, that’s a very good point I agree and maybe more subjective than it should be. Maybe I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt due to the fact that most Muslims, I am led to believe see it as a peaceful religion not one of hate. | |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 13:08 - Feb 3 with 1384 views | Lohengrin |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 12:01 - Feb 3 by union_jack |
OK. You answered the initial question in this thread - what the hell us wrong with people? - with ‘Islam’.
But it’s the fundamental aspect of it, the misinterpretation of it that is the real problem, not Islam itself. |
Oh! I see. The conversation shifted from broad outline to ‘fundamentals’ when the subject of Jihad was introduced; that’s to say what behaviours the dogma demands of its adherents. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 13:55 - Feb 3 with 1352 views | Highjack |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 12:28 - Feb 3 by union_jack |
Yes, that’s a very good point I agree and maybe more subjective than it should be. Maybe I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt due to the fact that most Muslims, I am led to believe see it as a peaceful religion not one of hate. |
It’s both a religion of peace and a religion of war. Religious texts were often written by several different men over several centuries. It’s no wonder they constantly contradict themselves. There’s page after page of “you should live in peace with each other”, followed immediately with “you should smite your enemies into tiny bits”. Obviously I’m paraphrasing.
Judaism was founded in a period of slavery. Christianity in a period of occupation. Islam in a period of civil war. After all, the prophet was a warlord who conquered much of the Arabian peninsula. There’s an element of struggle to all of them so there’s always going to be a lot of militant language and concepts. | |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 14:04 - Feb 3 with 1343 views | union_jack |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 13:08 - Feb 3 by Lohengrin |
Oh! I see. The conversation shifted from broad outline to ‘fundamentals’ when the subject of Jihad was introduced; that’s to say what behaviours the dogma demands of its adherents. |
Well one of those adherents seems to be the man shot yesterday which was the reason for this thread I thought. I’m sure he would come under the banner of fundamentalist or better still ‘evil b@stard’. | |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 15:57 - Feb 3 with 1285 views | Jango |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 00:26 - Feb 3 by londonlisa2001 |
Of course not.
They’re nutjobs.
Same as all religious ‘fundamentalists’.
They’re not religious though. Their religion tells them it’s abhorrent. They’re just monsters. Or brainwashed idiots who get sucked in by monsters.
Same as the endless number of white Christian nutjobs who shoot up schools, shopping centres and cinemas in the US. They’re monsters too. |
Do the white Christian nut jobs commit these atrocities in the name of their religion or are you just assuming because they are white that they are Christian? There’s a big difference. |  | | |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 19:00 - Feb 3 with 1232 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 15:57 - Feb 3 by Jango |
Do the white Christian nut jobs commit these atrocities in the name of their religion or are you just assuming because they are white that they are Christian? There’s a big difference. |
Well just taking the case of John Earnest, who shot up a synagogue in California last year, he wrote a seven page manifesto of hatred towards Jewish people based on Christian scripture. And stated that he wanted to kills Jews to glorify God.
Or what about the New Zealand mosque murderer last year who wrote a 74 page manifesto in which he spoke about Muslims as the enemy of white Christians? And said he was motivated by ‘attacks on my people, attacks on my culture, attacks on my faith, and attacks on my soul,’
White supremacy, which is a major cause of terrorism, is rooted in a ‘protection’ of Christianity. It’s why there are so many attacks on Muslims, Jews, gay people etc. Where do you think that comes from ffs?
Perhaps if people started applying the same analysis to nutjobs whatever their ethnicity and background, and stop looking for other justification in the case of white Christians it would be a little less hypocritical?
In general the argument used is hugely lopsided. The bible stating people should be stoned, or murdered, or subject to the lash, or cast out, or whatever for any number of complete trivialities is supposedly the sort of stuff that ordinary Christians happily ignore. The Koran saying the same thing somehow means that every Muslim in the world firmly believes it’s the right way to behave. It’s ridiculous. | | | |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 19:09 - Feb 3 with 1217 views | Neath_Jack |
F*cking hell, another "My religion is better than yours".
Highly educated, grown up people mind 
Destroy all religions ffs, it's 2020 now. |  |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 19:44 - Feb 3 with 1192 views | union_jack |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 19:09 - Feb 3 by Neath_Jack |
F*cking hell, another "My religion is better than yours".
Highly educated, grown up people mind
Destroy all religions ffs, it's 2020 now. |
We’d find something else if it wasn’t that. It’s human nature. | |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 20:24 - Feb 3 with 1144 views | Jango |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 19:00 - Feb 3 by londonlisa2001 |
Well just taking the case of John Earnest, who shot up a synagogue in California last year, he wrote a seven page manifesto of hatred towards Jewish people based on Christian scripture. And stated that he wanted to kills Jews to glorify God.
Or what about the New Zealand mosque murderer last year who wrote a 74 page manifesto in which he spoke about Muslims as the enemy of white Christians? And said he was motivated by ‘attacks on my people, attacks on my culture, attacks on my faith, and attacks on my soul,’
White supremacy, which is a major cause of terrorism, is rooted in a ‘protection’ of Christianity. It’s why there are so many attacks on Muslims, Jews, gay people etc. Where do you think that comes from ffs?
Perhaps if people started applying the same analysis to nutjobs whatever their ethnicity and background, and stop looking for other justification in the case of white Christians it would be a little less hypocritical?
In general the argument used is hugely lopsided. The bible stating people should be stoned, or murdered, or subject to the lash, or cast out, or whatever for any number of complete trivialities is supposedly the sort of stuff that ordinary Christians happily ignore. The Koran saying the same thing somehow means that every Muslim in the world firmly believes it’s the right way to behave. It’s ridiculous. |
So you’ve named 2 instances where religion was a factor with whites people. White supremacy is a totally different matter which needs be tackled individually. Avoiding the conversation about the obvious problem with regards to Islamic terrorists and dismissing it with ‘white Christians do it also’ is the reason we are in this position. | | | |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 20:32 - Feb 3 with 1126 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 20:24 - Feb 3 by Jango |
So you’ve named 2 instances where religion was a factor with whites people. White supremacy is a totally different matter which needs be tackled individually. Avoiding the conversation about the obvious problem with regards to Islamic terrorists and dismissing it with ‘white Christians do it also’ is the reason we are in this position. |
No Jango, I’ve named two very recent cases as examples as I couldn’t be bothered to look through the huge number of cases there have been recently.
Look them up if you actually want to learn something. I suspect you don’t.
I didn’t dismiss anything.
I believe all terrorism is wrong. Whichever colour, whichever religion, whichever cause.
Stop making up complete crap. White supremacy is not a ‘totally different matter’ - it’s bloody rooted in fundamentalist Christianity. Why do you think the KKK burnt big crosses? For a laugh? | | | |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 20:33 - Feb 3 with 1124 views | Jango |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 19:09 - Feb 3 by Neath_Jack |
F*cking hell, another "My religion is better than yours".
Highly educated, grown up people mind
Destroy all religions ffs, it's 2020 now. |
It’s the root of all evil. Puzzles me when I talk to grown ups who actually believe in a god. | | | |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 20:55 - Feb 3 with 1105 views | NotLoyal |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 19:09 - Feb 3 by Neath_Jack |
F*cking hell, another "My religion is better than yours".
Highly educated, grown up people mind
Destroy all religions ffs, it's 2020 now. |
My gods bigger than your god ... |  |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 21:50 - Feb 3 with 1075 views | Jango |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 20:32 - Feb 3 by londonlisa2001 |
No Jango, I’ve named two very recent cases as examples as I couldn’t be bothered to look through the huge number of cases there have been recently.
Look them up if you actually want to learn something. I suspect you don’t.
I didn’t dismiss anything.
I believe all terrorism is wrong. Whichever colour, whichever religion, whichever cause.
Stop making up complete crap. White supremacy is not a ‘totally different matter’ - it’s bloody rooted in fundamentalist Christianity. Why do you think the KKK burnt big crosses? For a laugh? |
I’ve looked up many of the cases Lisa so let’s not be patronising as usual.
How many incidents have we had had in this country recently where a white Christian has plotted and tried to commit mass murder? We’ve had a number of incidents where Islamic terrorists have done just that. Saying ‘well white Christians do it in different countries’ is not the way to deal with the issue.
How many of those ‘white Christian’ cases are a group of people plotting numbers of mass murder attempts as is often the case with these Islamic terrorists. There’s a massive difference between a lone wolf Psychopath going on a rampage killing people to groups of people plotting together for months. That’s my point about it being a different matter.
It’s exactly the same with the Muslim grooming gangs where you have people arguing that white people are peodophiles also.
How about talking about and dealing with the issues rather than comparing them to ones. | | | |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 23:24 - Feb 3 with 1034 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 21:50 - Feb 3 by Jango |
I’ve looked up many of the cases Lisa so let’s not be patronising as usual.
How many incidents have we had had in this country recently where a white Christian has plotted and tried to commit mass murder? We’ve had a number of incidents where Islamic terrorists have done just that. Saying ‘well white Christians do it in different countries’ is not the way to deal with the issue.
How many of those ‘white Christian’ cases are a group of people plotting numbers of mass murder attempts as is often the case with these Islamic terrorists. There’s a massive difference between a lone wolf Psychopath going on a rampage killing people to groups of people plotting together for months. That’s my point about it being a different matter.
It’s exactly the same with the Muslim grooming gangs where you have people arguing that white people are peodophiles also.
How about talking about and dealing with the issues rather than comparing them to ones. |
Yeah, I didn’t say anything of the sort.
You carry on. I can’t be bothered to discuss it when people are so constantly determined to twist what’s been said. It’s a waste of time. | | | |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 04:42 - Feb 4 with 998 views | Jango |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 23:24 - Feb 3 by londonlisa2001 |
Yeah, I didn’t say anything of the sort.
You carry on. I can’t be bothered to discuss it when people are so constantly determined to twist what’s been said. It’s a waste of time. |
No you said
“Same as the endless number of white Christian nutjobs who shoot up schools, shopping centres and cinemas in the US. They’re monsters too.”
You couldn’t help yourself. It’s like clockwork on threads like this. This incident has nothing to do with white nut jobs from other parts of the world.
I can guarantee if this was a thread about a white bloke running around trying to kill people you wouldn’t be on here saying ‘Muslim nut jobs are monsters too you know’ | | | |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 13:29 - Feb 4 with 924 views | Ebo |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 00:44 - Feb 3 by Lohengrin |
Islam isn't ‘ordinary’ here, Lis. |
That's a crass statement. |  |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 14:02 - Feb 4 with 893 views | Lohengrin |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 20:32 - Feb 3 by londonlisa2001 |
No Jango, I’ve named two very recent cases as examples as I couldn’t be bothered to look through the huge number of cases there have been recently.
Look them up if you actually want to learn something. I suspect you don’t.
I didn’t dismiss anything.
I believe all terrorism is wrong. Whichever colour, whichever religion, whichever cause.
Stop making up complete crap. White supremacy is not a ‘totally different matter’ - it’s bloody rooted in fundamentalist Christianity. Why do you think the KKK burnt big crosses? For a laugh? |
”...it’s bloody rooted in fundamentalist Christianity. Why do you think the KKK burnt big crosses? For a laugh?”
They did it in the original iteration as a nod to ancient highland clan lore not The Passion, Lis. You’ll find the motivator is Sir Walter Scott not Luke’s Gospel. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 14:04 - Feb 4 with 888 views | Highjack |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 14:02 - Feb 4 by Lohengrin |
”...it’s bloody rooted in fundamentalist Christianity. Why do you think the KKK burnt big crosses? For a laugh?”
They did it in the original iteration as a nod to ancient highland clan lore not The Passion, Lis. You’ll find the motivator is Sir Walter Scott not Luke’s Gospel. |
I always wondered why they burned crosses. Crosses are quite important to Christians. It’s a bit like keying your own car. | |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 14:06 - Feb 4 with 883 views | Lohengrin |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 13:29 - Feb 4 by Ebo |
That's a crass statement. |
Maybe, but it’s accurate. I’m talking about a set of ideas mind, not people as individuals, forget about the paper you may find them wrapped in.
All-in-all probably the most deleterious import to hit these shores since tobacco. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 16:55 - Feb 4 with 791 views | Ebo |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 14:06 - Feb 4 by Lohengrin |
Maybe, but it’s accurate. I’m talking about a set of ideas mind, not people as individuals, forget about the paper you may find them wrapped in.
All-in-all probably the most deleterious import to hit these shores since tobacco. |
Seriously, I really think that people who 'talk to God' have a screw loose, just be afraid if 'God talks to them' that's all I am saying.
The Koran, like the Bible is the most wrongly interpreted book ever written. It seems that every one has their own version with different meanings. | |
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| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 18:28 - Feb 4 with 749 views | WarwickHunt |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 16:55 - Feb 4 by Ebo |
Seriously, I really think that people who 'talk to God' have a screw loose, just be afraid if 'God talks to them' that's all I am saying.
The Koran, like the Bible is the most wrongly interpreted book ever written. It seems that every one has their own version with different meanings. |
Ditto footballers who point to the sky when they’ve scored. Your dead auntie Doris isn’t there you daft twà t - she’s fûcking dead see. |  | | |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 18:58 - Feb 4 with 727 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 14:02 - Feb 4 by Lohengrin |
”...it’s bloody rooted in fundamentalist Christianity. Why do you think the KKK burnt big crosses? For a laugh?”
They did it in the original iteration as a nod to ancient highland clan lore not The Passion, Lis. You’ll find the motivator is Sir Walter Scott not Luke’s Gospel. |
Sorry Loh, but that is only partially true.
The KKK obviously took practices from Scottish clans (hence the name!) but the ‘fiery cross’ of Scottish use you mention in itself stemmed from a number of religious based rituals. The original practice used burning wood for a summons to a meeting and a burning cross where the meeting was about blasphemy.
The book the Clansman that you’re referring to (and the subsequent film) did take note of Scottish custom. But they’ve always made a big point about their Protestant calling.
In 1923, they published a recruitment pamphlet that stated re the cross:
“a sign of the Christian religion sanctified and made holy nearly nineteen hundred years ago by the suffering and blood of the crucified Christ, bathed in the blood of fifty million martyrs who died in the most holy faith, it stands in every Klavern of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan as a constant reminder that Christ is our criterion of character.”
And:
“Who can look upon this sublime symbol, or sit in its sacred, holy light without being inspired with a holy desire and determination to be a better man? "By this sign we conquer."
The original head of the KKK (this second, 20th century version) started the movement by building an altar, on which was placed an American flag, a Bible, and a sword, he set fire to a wooden cross, and declared himself Imperial Wizard of the Invisible Empire of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
If you want to argue that has nothing to do with Christianity, you go ahead, but you’re mistaken.
The practice of burning a cross started as a revolt against the power of the Church (Rome) and was a stand against iconography - back about a thousand or more years ago. The Klan like it as part of their ‘anti Catholic’ views. | | | |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 19:00 - Feb 4 with 723 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London ... on 14:04 - Feb 4 by Highjack |
I always wondered why they burned crosses. Crosses are quite important to Christians. It’s a bit like keying your own car. |
They call it lighting a cross rather than burning a cross for that very reason.
Although there’s an element of anti papist ritual about it as well (see also Lewes in Sussex for similar ritualised burning). | | | |
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