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An absolutely amazing point considering the gap in quality between both sides.
That was absolutely pathetic from our manager today though, the lack of game management, the lack of awareness of what’s going on in from him, zero confidence in himself or the players sitting behind him on the bench
It's somewhat odd that people have taken criticism of Cooper's approach to the game yesterday as criticism of Cooper generally.
This season he's done a fine job. Without doubt. We've improved in basically every department and most people have said so. Doing a Badlands and trying to play that down simply doesn't work.
However, there's no doubt whatsoever that we shit ourselves yesterday. We went out to not lose, whereas Brentford went out to win. Somehow we managed to scrape a point where a two or three nil Brentford result wouldn't have flattered them. It's a big concern, especially when you're as close to a return to the Premier League as we are.
I'm in no rush to repeat the first few months of Clement's last season in charge. Cowering in our own half as inferior or at best equal teams have the freedom of play ahead of us. Cooper needs to practice what he preaches. If we lose going down all guns blazing, fair enough. If we lose because we don't have the balls to try and win, well, that's unacceptable.
Excellently put there Doc - I agree we did pap our pants yesterday but maintain that we went into the game without two of our best performers of this season namely Bennet and Smith. Obviously Smith was injured but the midfield looked a shadow of its usual self without him.
I find it quite interesting that for the majority on here he was the preferred choice to make way for Hourihane even if fit. Well I think we saw proof Wednesday evening that might not be the right call.
Leaving Bennett out , who (apart from being our best defender and leader) is the comfort blanket that the other four (and Grimes) look up to was a definite mistake. If your going to play a very good team puck your best players. It’s that simple. Wycombe at home yes by all means give him a rest but Brentford? A bit mad if you ask me.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
Let’s not pretend this vitriol from certain quarters is limited to a solitary match. This was just the latest in a long line of situations where people are frothing at the mouth to be incredibly disrespectful to our manager and negative to our team. For one or two individuals it’s clearly some form of sport and runs deeper than a simple disagreement in approach.
Some of the stuff levelled at our manager is completely unacceptable and beyond the pale, it goes way beyond constructive suggestion, which of course is all most of us are qualified to offer. Who needs away fans when we have a certain section of our own willing to do the job for them.
I re-read some awful threads titled Cooper Out, yet during all this time not a single alternative name or solution brought forward - the only solution offered seems to be an incredibly successful manager thus far, bowing to the demands of posters on an Internet forum to change his philosophy regarding the game that won a youth World Cup, a play off position on his first club season and sat in automatics in his second.
He has earned our trust, it’s a shame only a few are willing to give it and ridiculously think they know better.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Let’s not pretend this vitriol from certain quarters is limited to a solitary match. This was just the latest in a long line of situations where people are frothing at the mouth to be incredibly disrespectful to our manager and negative to our team. For one or two individuals it’s clearly some form of sport and runs deeper than a simple disagreement in approach.
Some of the stuff levelled at our manager is completely unacceptable and beyond the pale, it goes way beyond constructive suggestion, which of course is all most of us are qualified to offer. Who needs away fans when we have a certain section of our own willing to do the job for them.
I re-read some awful threads titled Cooper Out, yet during all this time not a single alternative name or solution brought forward - the only solution offered seems to be an incredibly successful manager thus far, bowing to the demands of posters on an Internet forum to change his philosophy regarding the game that won a youth World Cup, a play off position on his first club season and sat in automatics in his second.
He has earned our trust, it’s a shame only a few are willing to give it and ridiculously think they know better.
Let’s not pretend this vitriol from certain quarters is limited to a solitary match. This was just the latest in a long line of situations where people are frothing at the mouth to be incredibly disrespectful to our manager and negative to our team. For one or two individuals it’s clearly some form of sport and runs deeper than a simple disagreement in approach.
Some of the stuff levelled at our manager is completely unacceptable and beyond the pale, it goes way beyond constructive suggestion, which of course is all most of us are qualified to offer. Who needs away fans when we have a certain section of our own willing to do the job for them.
I re-read some awful threads titled Cooper Out, yet during all this time not a single alternative name or solution brought forward - the only solution offered seems to be an incredibly successful manager thus far, bowing to the demands of posters on an Internet forum to change his philosophy regarding the game that won a youth World Cup, a play off position on his first club season and sat in automatics in his second.
He has earned our trust, it’s a shame only a few are willing to give it and ridiculously think they know better.
Excellent post. At the moment, for some, it's nothing to do with the manager. If it isn't then we've been incredibly lucky over 25 games so far. The defence being so good is also nothing to do with the keeper. Just as well the outfield defence is so good because FW is useless. Obviously.
About Wednesday's game. Someone complained that Ryan Bennett wasn't playing, that we needed his experience on the field. This, apparently, is one of the monumental gaffs SC made. It was blindingly obvious to the majority of us that he wouldn't play him twice in four days after having been out injured for a month or whatever. But no. Another Cooper mistake.
One big positive from the battering they took. The fact that they've worked so hard together as a team to get where we are now is huge so they must have been buzzing going into the dressing room knowing that it's their efforts as a team that earned that point. They didn't play nearly as well as they have in many games this season and Brentford were excellent.
Some times the football just doesn't work for any team. On Wednesday they earned the point through sheer graft.
Great post, fresh blood seeing it from an entirely different angle to some of the fetid, staid blood.
- For me, we weren't in because they are a top team, not for our lack of application. - the performance was almost as good as it could have been against them, yet we may have been so much better had CH lived up to his PL billing, and/or Smith was fit - re subs - Cabango shoulda gone, and agree re Morris for Ayew was a good shout, which in the end we didnt need - Cooper doesn't like subs for the reason he wants to secure the win - “Great teams always have a Plan B. Look at Barcelona. Their Plan B is to stick to Plan A.” - Tidy. I'm more than quite enjoying it too
2nd in the league - because or despite Cooper.
Did anyone say it was a lack of application? I think we applied ourselves very well it was just that we were too deep, too defensive, we gave up 30 yards of pitch far too often and gave them to space to look up and pick out those long passes.
Our application in defence, in our final third was outstanding, almost every player put their body on the line, including Lowe.
Almost as good...have to agree to disagree, we could have done much better.
Subs, maybe he slipped into an old habit because he'd been superb at subs recently.
You don't only make subs when the game is won, you need to be proactive. Naughton was on a yellow and still making challenges on the edge, he needed replacing more than Cabango in my opinion.
I'm not sure Barcelona is a great comparison, they spend a fortune on the very best players and that's not going so very well for them anymore. Cooper operates on a shoestring and apart from the ocassional glitch, he's doing a great job.
I reckon, even after games we've won comfortably, Coops talks to the players about where they could have done better, as fans it's what we do all the time.
And OK, I read the thread and some of the comments were beyond reasonable.
Lastly, second in the league because of Cooper, judging the season so far, he's done a great job. Better than expected.
Excellent post. At the moment, for some, it's nothing to do with the manager. If it isn't then we've been incredibly lucky over 25 games so far. The defence being so good is also nothing to do with the keeper. Just as well the outfield defence is so good because FW is useless. Obviously.
About Wednesday's game. Someone complained that Ryan Bennett wasn't playing, that we needed his experience on the field. This, apparently, is one of the monumental gaffs SC made. It was blindingly obvious to the majority of us that he wouldn't play him twice in four days after having been out injured for a month or whatever. But no. Another Cooper mistake.
One big positive from the battering they took. The fact that they've worked so hard together as a team to get where we are now is huge so they must have been buzzing going into the dressing room knowing that it's their efforts as a team that earned that point. They didn't play nearly as well as they have in many games this season and Brentford were excellent.
Some times the football just doesn't work for any team. On Wednesday they earned the point through sheer graft.
Great post, spot on.
We have got a bad performance out of the way and they will have learnt from it.
Huge overreaction. Disappointing performance. Players not at the races. It happens. We were better than them up there and should have beaten them earlier in season. They held on. We held on today. One point each.
Irrational overreactions against our manager for a below par team performance is the norm for some. It's either Cooper or Grimes that gets the brunt of it.
They were better from the off. The way in which they targeted Grimes in early pincer moves set the tone. We held on, as we do. Came back in it, as we do.
Another massive learning for the collective team effort. Doubt we'll be so much on the backfoot again, from the off.
Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye
Irrational overreactions against our manager for a below par team performance is the norm for some. It's either Cooper or Grimes that gets the brunt of it.
They were better from the off. The way in which they targeted Grimes in early pincer moves set the tone. We held on, as we do. Came back in it, as we do.
Another massive learning for the collective team effort. Doubt we'll be so much on the backfoot again, from the off.
Make no mistake,post are graded "brilliant,excellent or great becasue the poster agrees not because of any other reason. Catullus ,killykenny and tramp post much I disagree with but I see them as great/brilliant/excellent as they stimulate discussion instead of the typical best fan love in crap that depresses so often.
Grimes scored a great goal recently and that will keep his stock high for a while.
As for Fred ,all the abuse/slagging off refers to his ability as a footballer and yes one can be a coward of a player in any sport but NOT as an individual away from the job.
I don’t think anyone can fault the job Cooper has done with us, but tactically, he got it wrong on Wednesday. Whatever level you manage at, be it pro, semi pro or amateur, when you see an imbalance in certain area’s, you try to redress that ASAP. The players themselves can see it and I’m really at a loss to why a change wasn’t made.
I don’t think anyone can fault the job Cooper has done with us, but tactically, he got it wrong on Wednesday. Whatever level you manage at, be it pro, semi pro or amateur, when you see an imbalance in certain area’s, you try to redress that ASAP. The players themselves can see it and I’m really at a loss to why a change wasn’t made.
I don’t think anyone can fault the job Cooper has done with us, but tactically, he got it wrong on Wednesday. Whatever level you manage at, be it pro, semi pro or amateur, when you see an imbalance in certain area’s, you try to redress that ASAP. The players themselves can see it and I’m really at a loss to why a change wasn’t made.
I been saying it in a few posts,to be told by some the systems mean nothing...of course they do or you wouldn't have them...
I don’t think anyone can fault the job Cooper has done with us, but tactically, he got it wrong on Wednesday. Whatever level you manage at, be it pro, semi pro or amateur, when you see an imbalance in certain area’s, you try to redress that ASAP. The players themselves can see it and I’m really at a loss to why a change wasn’t made.
You're spot on about not faulting Cooper to date.
In what way did he get it tactically wrong though ? The usual formation of 352 which allows for flexibility to pack the midfield if needed was in place. A formation which has served us fantastically well since we stumbled upon it when Wilmott got injured, and excelled in the playoffs, where the 5 in the middle becomes 5 at the back or 4 up top in a heartbeat. With clever WBs that adapt.
Brentford came out of the blocks and bullied our players. Pincered on Grimes to nullify our pivot. Forced our WBs to pull back to support. A battle of wills which they won, on the pitch.
Nothing At all to do with coaching. You said it yourself, the players could see it, yet were unable to react quick enough. Nothing at all to do with coaching. Half time allowed the coaches to redress the way in which Brentford came at us, which we did by getting a goal back despite going down to 10 men.
We missed Bennett. Cabango was poor, a double whammy. We missed Smith.
So, in what way did Cooper (not the players) suddenly get it tactically wrong, after such a resounding success so far of getting it right?
Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye
In what way did he get it tactically wrong though ? The usual formation of 352 which allows for flexibility to pack the midfield if needed was in place. A formation which has served us fantastically well since we stumbled upon it when Wilmott got injured, and excelled in the playoffs, where the 5 in the middle becomes 5 at the back or 4 up top in a heartbeat. With clever WBs that adapt.
Brentford came out of the blocks and bullied our players. Pincered on Grimes to nullify our pivot. Forced our WBs to pull back to support. A battle of wills which they won, on the pitch.
Nothing At all to do with coaching. You said it yourself, the players could see it, yet were unable to react quick enough. Nothing at all to do with coaching. Half time allowed the coaches to redress the way in which Brentford came at us, which we did by getting a goal back despite going down to 10 men.
We missed Bennett. Cabango was poor, a double whammy. We missed Smith.
So, in what way did Cooper (not the players) suddenly get it tactically wrong, after such a resounding success so far of getting it right?
That’s a very good and accurate assessment of what happened
And I think it happened as too many of our players were below par. Individually and then collectively our team didn’t perform as it can. It happens to all teams at some point in a season.
Hopefully we will play better at Rotherham ðŸ‘
Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day
In what way did he get it tactically wrong though ? The usual formation of 352 which allows for flexibility to pack the midfield if needed was in place. A formation which has served us fantastically well since we stumbled upon it when Wilmott got injured, and excelled in the playoffs, where the 5 in the middle becomes 5 at the back or 4 up top in a heartbeat. With clever WBs that adapt.
Brentford came out of the blocks and bullied our players. Pincered on Grimes to nullify our pivot. Forced our WBs to pull back to support. A battle of wills which they won, on the pitch.
Nothing At all to do with coaching. You said it yourself, the players could see it, yet were unable to react quick enough. Nothing at all to do with coaching. Half time allowed the coaches to redress the way in which Brentford came at us, which we did by getting a goal back despite going down to 10 men.
We missed Bennett. Cabango was poor, a double whammy. We missed Smith.
So, in what way did Cooper (not the players) suddenly get it tactically wrong, after such a resounding success so far of getting it right?
You’ve just mentioned in your post a list of thing Brentford did, you saw it with your own eyes, why didn’t Cooper.
You say we didn’t react quick enough, you’re correct, we didn’t react at all.
You’ve just mentioned in your post a list of thing Brentford did, you saw it with your own eyes, why didn’t Cooper.
You say we didn’t react quick enough, you’re correct, we didn’t react at all.
There’s a lot of merit to this argument. Even if he just swapped Hourihane and Grimes positionally it would have confused Brentford and given us a foothold in the game.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
You’ve just mentioned in your post a list of thing Brentford did, you saw it with your own eyes, why didn’t Cooper.
You say we didn’t react quick enough, you’re correct, we didn’t react at all.
How do you know he didn’t see it? There are far too many assumptions being made in order to attack and blame.
He may have seen it and made the assessment that any change with the game as it was and the personnel we had available was not a sensible change for the bigger picture. While it may address one problem it may expose multiple others.
Brining on Bennett would have exposed us further to the ball over the top where they were getting a lot of joy, especially a not fully fit Bennett, that’s just one obvious example.
Because a manager doesn’t make the change a supporter wants doesn’t mean the supporter is right and has a greater understanding of management than him, it means he disagrees with you in all likelihood.
And his pedigree is far greater than anyone on here in that department.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
In what way did he get it tactically wrong though ? The usual formation of 352 which allows for flexibility to pack the midfield if needed was in place. A formation which has served us fantastically well since we stumbled upon it when Wilmott got injured, and excelled in the playoffs, where the 5 in the middle becomes 5 at the back or 4 up top in a heartbeat. With clever WBs that adapt.
Brentford came out of the blocks and bullied our players. Pincered on Grimes to nullify our pivot. Forced our WBs to pull back to support. A battle of wills which they won, on the pitch.
Nothing At all to do with coaching. You said it yourself, the players could see it, yet were unable to react quick enough. Nothing at all to do with coaching. Half time allowed the coaches to redress the way in which Brentford came at us, which we did by getting a goal back despite going down to 10 men.
We missed Bennett. Cabango was poor, a double whammy. We missed Smith.
So, in what way did Cooper (not the players) suddenly get it tactically wrong, after such a resounding success so far of getting it right?
We didnt play 3 5 2, we played 3 4 1 2, the midfield was spread out, the wing backs had to drop back to help the defence as they targeted our defence especially naughton so in reality the formation was 5 2 1 2, brentford were the only team to do this to us as our wing backs normally get forward and put us on the front foot.
As I've said before, copper should have either put bennett on and moved cabango to the RCH position to try and negate toney or gone to a flat back 4 to negate their attack.
Touch wood we wont see a team do this to us again this season and I hope that cooper and the coaching team have learnt from weds and make sure it diesnt happen again.
We didnt play 3 5 2, we played 3 4 1 2, the midfield was spread out, the wing backs had to drop back to help the defence as they targeted our defence especially naughton so in reality the formation was 5 2 1 2, brentford were the only team to do this to us as our wing backs normally get forward and put us on the front foot.
As I've said before, copper should have either put bennett on and moved cabango to the RCH position to try and negate toney or gone to a flat back 4 to negate their attack.
Touch wood we wont see a team do this to us again this season and I hope that cooper and the coaching team have learnt from weds and make sure it diesnt happen again.
Yes theoretically your right,but the 3412 is basically the same as 352 as in the 1 floats behind front 2 still making it a 3 man midfield that often interchange,but your exactly right when you say we're pushed back by Brentford making our system a constant 5 3 2 or 5212 if you want call it that meaning our midfield 3 were swamped when Andy Cole says it can change from 5 at back to 4 up front ,he is right when it's working,but when it's not things need to change and he didnt
Yes theoretically your right,but the 3412 is basically the same as 352 as in the 1 floats behind front 2 still making it a 3 man midfield that often interchange,but your exactly right when you say we're pushed back by Brentford making our system a constant 5 3 2 or 5212 if you want call it that meaning our midfield 3 were swamped when Andy Cole says it can change from 5 at back to 4 up front ,he is right when it's working,but when it's not things need to change and he didnt
Exactly, I have alot of time for cooper and I get that he is inexperienced in championship football but hes been a manager of a team for a few years so I would expect him to act on what is going wrong.
Yes you should carry on for a bit as you want to give your formation time to work but when it clearly isnt you should have a back up plan.
Excellent post. At the moment, for some, it's nothing to do with the manager. If it isn't then we've been incredibly lucky over 25 games so far. The defence being so good is also nothing to do with the keeper. Just as well the outfield defence is so good because FW is useless. Obviously.
About Wednesday's game. Someone complained that Ryan Bennett wasn't playing, that we needed his experience on the field. This, apparently, is one of the monumental gaffs SC made. It was blindingly obvious to the majority of us that he wouldn't play him twice in four days after having been out injured for a month or whatever. But no. Another Cooper mistake.
One big positive from the battering they took. The fact that they've worked so hard together as a team to get where we are now is huge so they must have been buzzing going into the dressing room knowing that it's their efforts as a team that earned that point. They didn't play nearly as well as they have in many games this season and Brentford were excellent.
Some times the football just doesn't work for any team. On Wednesday they earned the point through sheer graft.
A comment in walesonline today from Conor Hourihane.
"The team spirit here is clear to see and I’ve only been here for a week," he added.
"The dressing room was buzzing after Wednesday because we know that could be a massive point.
Exactly, I have alot of time for cooper and I get that he is inexperienced in championship football but hes been a manager of a team for a few years so I would expect him to act on what is going wrong.
Yes you should carry on for a bit as you want to give your formation time to work but when it clearly isnt you should have a back up plan.
Should have gone 4 at back with our fullbacks then nullifying their attacking full backs and our 4 in midfield could have matched theirs as they played 4411 with their attacking full backs pushing our wing backs so deep leaving 4 against 3 in middle park meaning player were getting dragged out of position to try and make an extra man,if it happened for 5 or 10 minutes and we started getting a grip on the game then fine,but they were constantly overrunning us so he should have changed something as it wasn't working...
Should have gone 4 at back with our fullbacks then nullifying their attacking full backs and our 4 in midfield could have matched theirs as they played 4411 with their attacking full backs pushing our wing backs so deep leaving 4 against 3 in middle park meaning player were getting dragged out of position to try and make an extra man,if it happened for 5 or 10 minutes and we started getting a grip on the game then fine,but they were constantly overrunning us so he should have changed something as it wasn't working...
Thing is Cooper has on many occasions not done anything regards subs and most of the time got away with it, I’m certain in his mind that’s a strategy that nearly always works. Hence his reluctance.
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
Thing is Cooper has on many occasions not done anything regards subs and most of the time got away with it, I’m certain in his mind that’s a strategy that nearly always works. Hence his reluctance.
Exactly he never ever changes things unless it's forced this system was forced on him and by luck he started getting results and fine that's good when it works but you got to be flexible if it don't..I remember potter changing systems 3 times during one game
Looking at it realistically you get games like that where your passing is sluggish, nothing is sticking up front and the opposition look quicker and smarter than you. It was almost a mirror image of the game at their place where they really struggled and we looked better and sharper. It happens. But the massive positive this season is that when it happens we are still grinding out draws and even wins. In previous seasons we would have taken a right beating. I think it’s only really the Derby game that we’ve really rolled over and not fought. The way Cooper and his staff and the whole squad has created this togetherness and commitment and spirit is beyond fantastic.
I do think some criticism is valid though. Sometimes we are crying out for change, it was clear that Ayew was struggling on the night but some players are undroppable then others who play well off the bench don’t get a look in. It’s hard to be too critical when we’re in second and picking up points despite not playing particularly well though.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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