| another 2 million invested on 16:40 - Mar 23 with 1218 views | Whiterockin |
| another 2 million invested on 16:30 - Mar 23 by QJumpingJack |
A lot of the unanswered questions could be asked in the new Coleman sessions (the one-to-one's).
And the Western Mail/WalesOnline have a listed of the investors which was published a few years back. |
They could be asked, but would they be answered and if you are the type to ask the questions would you be asked to attend. |  | |  |
| another 2 million invested on 16:45 - Mar 23 with 1207 views | QJumpingJack |
| another 2 million invested on 16:29 - Mar 23 by KeithHaynes |
The trust behaved stupidly when ? |
how could the Trust act stupidly in 2016 when they were excluded from discussions.
I urge you to listen to the Kaplan-Levien-Trust forum in 2017 where Jason quite clearly outlines what happened. He was told not to speak to the Trust buy the outgoing owners. It was recorded and it is on YouTube. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge it.
Maybe take your views to the Trust and their lawyers? |  | | |
| another 2 million invested on 16:48 - Mar 23 with 1200 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| another 2 million invested on 16:29 - Mar 23 by KeithHaynes |
The trust behaved stupidly when ? |
February 2015 . "Here are some Americans who want to buy club shares and invest".
March 2016. " Here are some very rich Americans who want to buy your shares are you interested? ".
They could not sell any shares and protect themselves from future dilution. Cash is king. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| another 2 million invested on 16:51 - Mar 23 with 1202 views | Whiterockin |
| another 2 million invested on 16:45 - Mar 23 by QJumpingJack |
how could the Trust act stupidly in 2016 when they were excluded from discussions.
I urge you to listen to the Kaplan-Levien-Trust forum in 2017 where Jason quite clearly outlines what happened. He was told not to speak to the Trust buy the outgoing owners. It was recorded and it is on YouTube. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge it.
Maybe take your views to the Trust and their lawyers? |
He won't listen mate he never does, it doesn't fit in with his agenda. Produce facts and he swerves away, he posts opinions as facts and will scour the internet for some obscure peice to back him up, Wales Online is his favourite and that differs depending on the date. | | | |
| another 2 million invested on 16:57 - Mar 23 with 1189 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| another 2 million invested on 16:51 - Mar 23 by Whiterockin |
He won't listen mate he never does, it doesn't fit in with his agenda. Produce facts and he swerves away, he posts opinions as facts and will scour the internet for some obscure peice to back him up, Wales Online is his favourite and that differs depending on the date. |
A sale needs a willing buyer and a willing seller. Forum sages now say the US guys are desperate to get to 75%. They bought 69% in 2016 and had cash to buy the Trusts shares.
The reason was that one party were not keen on selling. They said so. No one sells if they are not keen. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| another 2 million invested on 17:52 - Mar 23 with 1144 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| another 2 million invested on 16:45 - Mar 23 by QJumpingJack |
how could the Trust act stupidly in 2016 when they were excluded from discussions.
I urge you to listen to the Kaplan-Levien-Trust forum in 2017 where Jason quite clearly outlines what happened. He was told not to speak to the Trust buy the outgoing owners. It was recorded and it is on YouTube. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge it.
Maybe take your views to the Trust and their lawyers? |
The Trust in 2015 stated their shares were not for sale. They added they never would be. There was no good reason to include them in the full process for the second offer which was also in 2015.
The Trust have put £200k into the club and taken out a reported £800k in dividends. They took another £500k from the other owners perhaps the LLP in a settlement. This money could have been back in the club. What are they doing with this big money? The answer is next to nothing.
I ask you what good are they for the club? I get no answers. I will not give them a bean until I do. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| another 2 million invested on 18:02 - Mar 23 with 1143 views | theloneranger |
| another 2 million invested on 15:25 - Mar 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
They bought 69% in 2016 and now own 72% according to you. They did not want 75% in 2016 It seems. People argue at the same time that the Trust were keen to sell their shares. They could not have been keen on either side.
You are wrong about the 60%. I am a decent bloke and accept it is your mistake. I do not accuse people of being a fantasist or a liar like SC appears to do.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/10509295/ [Post edited 23 Mar 15:33]
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They didn't need to buy 75% in 2016 - your heroes Huw Jenkins and Martin Morgan seen to that, when they let them have their voting rights!! |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| another 2 million invested on 18:08 - Mar 23 with 1136 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| another 2 million invested on 18:02 - Mar 23 by theloneranger |
They didn't need to buy 75% in 2016 - your heroes Huw Jenkins and Martin Morgan seen to that, when they let them have their voting rights!! |
Well there you go then. One poster was seriously concerned that the owners were closing in on 75% and the shocking things those dreadful US guys could do with that.
You have quite rightly reminded all of us that the US guys had 75% all along until Morris turned up and diluted everybody else including the LLP. Do not lose sleep over this.
Huw did a great job but has now left. Mr Morgan sponsors the stadium for 10 years in the absence of Go Compare who prefer women's football which is more wholesome. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| another 2 million invested on 20:16 - Mar 23 with 1085 views | QJumpingJack |
| another 2 million invested on 18:08 - Mar 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Well there you go then. One poster was seriously concerned that the owners were closing in on 75% and the shocking things those dreadful US guys could do with that.
You have quite rightly reminded all of us that the US guys had 75% all along until Morris turned up and diluted everybody else including the LLP. Do not lose sleep over this.
Huw did a great job but has now left. Mr Morgan sponsors the stadium for 10 years in the absence of Go Compare who prefer women's football which is more wholesome. |
All your claims about the Trust 2015-2016 seemed to be sourced from WalesOnline.
You don't seem to have spoken or engaged with those working on the Trust at the time.
Worrying. Very worrying. | | | |
| another 2 million invested on 20:43 - Mar 23 with 1059 views | Whiterockin |
| another 2 million invested on 20:16 - Mar 23 by QJumpingJack |
All your claims about the Trust 2015-2016 seemed to be sourced from WalesOnline.
You don't seem to have spoken or engaged with those working on the Trust at the time.
Worrying. Very worrying. |
He did engage with someone working on the trust at the time and they banned him, allegedly for being economical with the truth. | | | |
| another 2 million invested on 20:46 - Mar 23 with 1050 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| another 2 million invested on 20:16 - Mar 23 by QJumpingJack |
All your claims about the Trust 2015-2016 seemed to be sourced from WalesOnline.
You don't seem to have spoken or engaged with those working on the Trust at the time.
Worrying. Very worrying. |
WoL is based in Cardiff so cannot be trusted right? The usual smoke and mirrors. WoL
Skysports, BBC, ITV all reported it. It was seemingly the Trust's "position and strategy" and was frankly not a very good one. They should have been desperate to cash in any time after 2013 especially after Huw J;enkins warned of tough times ahead after a cash squeeze and the need to sell Shelvey.
The Trust notionally represent their customer base. It is this customer base that give the Trust their leverage. Ideally the Trust's massive cash holding would give them leverage. For example "we are willing to invest our £500k but not while Duff is coach". The US guys see no benefit in criticizing them.
The US people have said very little and just got Silverstein over to sort it out. The Trust have reported on their own bad work in their statements. US people have not defended themselves at all. Jake can mix and deal with the Trust people one day and an Arab sheik the next. What a great man to have on board. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| another 2 million invested on 21:39 - Mar 23 with 996 views | SullutaCreturned |
| another 2 million invested on 15:17 - Mar 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Morris invested for the long term and will make big money in the Premier League if they get there. The LLP people are winners and know how to make money. If he wants to avoid dilution he has to invest further as the club is losing money. 75% does a not authorize theft. If you jointly own a flat everyone has to contribute to fixing the boiler. Its life. |
Well that's just blather. Seeing as Morris has had his percentage diluted, any profit he makes will be less than it would have been.
Secondly, 75% doesn't authorise theft BUt it does legalise taking steps to further dilute his shareholding regardless of if he agrees or not.
Third, IF we get to the EPL?
Fourth, that blather provides no evidence that your previous post is anything other than an assumption and possibly a lie. You can down arrow it all you like but how do you know what Morris wants or intends to do?
Fifth, if you jointly own a flat and one party owns 75% then they have 75% of the bill.
Sixth, if the club is losing money then it wipes away your assertion that the LLP people are winners who know how to make money. If they are winners then how come all three of their football clubs are doing worse than when these owners took over? How come they are constantly having to put money into SCFC only for it to be lost, where is their profit? | | | |
| another 2 million invested on 23:20 - Mar 23 with 917 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| another 2 million invested on 21:39 - Mar 23 by SullutaCreturned |
Well that's just blather. Seeing as Morris has had his percentage diluted, any profit he makes will be less than it would have been.
Secondly, 75% doesn't authorise theft BUt it does legalise taking steps to further dilute his shareholding regardless of if he agrees or not.
Third, IF we get to the EPL?
Fourth, that blather provides no evidence that your previous post is anything other than an assumption and possibly a lie. You can down arrow it all you like but how do you know what Morris wants or intends to do?
Fifth, if you jointly own a flat and one party owns 75% then they have 75% of the bill.
Sixth, if the club is losing money then it wipes away your assertion that the LLP people are winners who know how to make money. If they are winners then how come all three of their football clubs are doing worse than when these owners took over? How come they are constantly having to put money into SCFC only for it to be lost, where is their profit? |
The club is worth £x m . After this week it is worth £xm + £2 m. Morris's share valuation for the club has not dropped as the result of the investment. The valuation of his shares depends upon performance and the club's balance book rather than his percentage holding,
You and your chums do not understand inflation. In theory the value of things increase year on year and this includes Swansea city. Swansea was sold for £100m . Burnley was sold for £200m. If inflation matches dilution then there is no financial loss. Someone said Brentford were on the market for £400m. In 5 years Swansea could be worth that as Wood Cabango Govea Parker Lissah and Ronald do their stuff. The Trust holding would be 5% of £400m that is £20m the same they missed out on in 2016. In this case what was lost in dilution was recovered by gains in inflation.
Morris can prevent dilution by continuing to fund the company if he wants to. Laws exist I expect to allow him to do this. He unlike yourself understands how it works. There is only one way to prevent dilution and that is match fund.
The Swansea Trust owns 10% but offer nothing to 'replace the boiler'. They last invested 22 years ago. (The LLP do all the hard yards). Trust not even 10% . They do not want to maintain 10% they are cruising to 5% and freedom from dilution apparently. Once there they can put out the deck chairs and do even less than they do today.
The LLP also own DC United and it was quoted to be worth $800m. They have been talking to Arabs that might be quite keen to own real estate in the capital of the USA for lots of reasons.
Swansea is small potatoes for them. They want to sit at the top table in the Premier league for sure if they can. It is the world's biggest league. The LLP folks have very rich mates that Huw and co could only dream of. If they sell DC they will have a huge capital gains tax bill to pay. Hiving off SCFC losses will reduce this. They will be fabulously rich in time. They were already rich before they bought Swansea . They make money by sweating assets. They must wince when they recall Cooper telling them Gyorkeres was not what he wanted. [Post edited 23 Mar 23:22]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| another 2 million invested on 00:03 - Mar 24 with 905 views | theloneranger |
| another 2 million invested on 18:08 - Mar 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Well there you go then. One poster was seriously concerned that the owners were closing in on 75% and the shocking things those dreadful US guys could do with that.
You have quite rightly reminded all of us that the US guys had 75% all along until Morris turned up and diluted everybody else including the LLP. Do not lose sleep over this.
Huw did a great job but has now left. Mr Morgan sponsors the stadium for 10 years in the absence of Go Compare who prefer women's football which is more wholesome. |
Well there you go then.
They not only left the Trust out of the sale, but knowingly undermined the Trust further by passing on their voting rights to the new owners - giving them the 75% they needed in the boardroom. | |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| another 2 million invested on 00:40 - Mar 24 with 889 views | KeithHaynes |
| another 2 million invested on 16:48 - Mar 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
February 2015 . "Here are some Americans who want to buy club shares and invest".
March 2016. " Here are some very rich Americans who want to buy your shares are you interested? ".
They could not sell any shares and protect themselves from future dilution. Cash is king. |
But the trust had the carpet pulled from underneath them. It will all come out this year. |  |
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| another 2 million invested on 05:37 - Mar 24 with 874 views | Treforys_Jack |
| another 2 million invested on 00:40 - Mar 24 by KeithHaynes |
But the trust had the carpet pulled from underneath them. It will all come out this year. |
Very cryptic Keith |  | | |
| another 2 million invested on 07:10 - Mar 24 with 860 views | felixstowe_jack |
Yesterday it was announced an American investment firm had brought a 40% stake in Ipswich Town for the sum of £105 million. Seems they are taking a punt on Ipswich getting promoted. | |
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| another 2 million invested on 08:46 - Mar 24 with 824 views | Whiterockin |
| another 2 million invested on 23:20 - Mar 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The club is worth £x m . After this week it is worth £xm + £2 m. Morris's share valuation for the club has not dropped as the result of the investment. The valuation of his shares depends upon performance and the club's balance book rather than his percentage holding,
You and your chums do not understand inflation. In theory the value of things increase year on year and this includes Swansea city. Swansea was sold for £100m . Burnley was sold for £200m. If inflation matches dilution then there is no financial loss. Someone said Brentford were on the market for £400m. In 5 years Swansea could be worth that as Wood Cabango Govea Parker Lissah and Ronald do their stuff. The Trust holding would be 5% of £400m that is £20m the same they missed out on in 2016. In this case what was lost in dilution was recovered by gains in inflation.
Morris can prevent dilution by continuing to fund the company if he wants to. Laws exist I expect to allow him to do this. He unlike yourself understands how it works. There is only one way to prevent dilution and that is match fund.
The Swansea Trust owns 10% but offer nothing to 'replace the boiler'. They last invested 22 years ago. (The LLP do all the hard yards). Trust not even 10% . They do not want to maintain 10% they are cruising to 5% and freedom from dilution apparently. Once there they can put out the deck chairs and do even less than they do today.
The LLP also own DC United and it was quoted to be worth $800m. They have been talking to Arabs that might be quite keen to own real estate in the capital of the USA for lots of reasons.
Swansea is small potatoes for them. They want to sit at the top table in the Premier league for sure if they can. It is the world's biggest league. The LLP folks have very rich mates that Huw and co could only dream of. If they sell DC they will have a huge capital gains tax bill to pay. Hiving off SCFC losses will reduce this. They will be fabulously rich in time. They were already rich before they bought Swansea . They make money by sweating assets. They must wince when they recall Cooper telling them Gyorkeres was not what he wanted. [Post edited 23 Mar 23:22]
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Are you talking about LLP or LLC just for clarification. Swansea Football LLC is avehicle for investment into Swansea City and has no involvement in DC United. | | | |
| another 2 million invested on 13:08 - Mar 24 with 707 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| another 2 million invested on 08:46 - Mar 24 by Whiterockin |
Are you talking about LLP or LLC just for clarification. Swansea Football LLC is avehicle for investment into Swansea City and has no involvement in DC United. |
Levien and Kaplan are the main players and beneficiaries of any DC sale. Coleman and others may have invested with them earlier. What ever happens at Swansea they know they are in clover.
Morris and Silverstein seem to have invested later and they did not buy at PL prices so will have not lost too much. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| another 2 million invested on 13:33 - Mar 24 with 682 views | QJumpingJack |
please can you provide a credible source around your comments and the American ownership structure.
thank you | | | |
| another 2 million invested on 13:36 - Mar 24 with 680 views | Whiterockin |
| another 2 million invested on 13:08 - Mar 24 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Levien and Kaplan are the main players and beneficiaries of any DC sale. Coleman and others may have invested with them earlier. What ever happens at Swansea they know they are in clover.
Morris and Silverstein seem to have invested later and they did not buy at PL prices so will have not lost too much. |
It's a totally different set up in the US to the English leagues. In the USA you don't own the club only the franchise. All the clubs are owned by MLS. There has been a lot of trading of DC shares over recent years with investors buying and selling, including Vincent Tan. All this has gone mostly unnoticed in the UK. Kaplan and Levien do have an investment vehicle in the US but it has a different "membership" to Swansea Football LLC, although some are the same.
Currently nobody has lost at Swansea because nobody has sold, although share percentage has dropped for some. Remember Levien and Kaplan are not the only directors to be involved from the first investment Chaudhari and Eastmanhenreich have been with them from the beginning and are still directors. These two are rarely mentioned and their investment into Swansea Football LLC is not known. They could even be the biggest investors into Swansea Football LLC and just keeping a low profile, who knows without clarity. As a side issue, Chaudhari is also an investors in DC United, as far as I can make out Eastmanhenreich is not. | | | |
| another 2 million invested on 13:43 - Mar 24 with 657 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| another 2 million invested on 00:03 - Mar 24 by theloneranger |
Well there you go then.
They not only left the Trust out of the sale, but knowingly undermined the Trust further by passing on their voting rights to the new owners - giving them the 75% they needed in the boardroom. |
They are free citizens. The US people wanted to buy their voting rights and they agreed a price. The Trust could have sold their voting right s presumably. I do not want them calling the shots. Their decision makeing has been very poor.
Wrexham Trust ran their club and eventually gave up selling it for pennies, tired and dissilusioned. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| another 2 million invested on 13:50 - Mar 24 with 643 views | SullutaCreturned |
| another 2 million invested on 23:20 - Mar 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The club is worth £x m . After this week it is worth £xm + £2 m. Morris's share valuation for the club has not dropped as the result of the investment. The valuation of his shares depends upon performance and the club's balance book rather than his percentage holding,
You and your chums do not understand inflation. In theory the value of things increase year on year and this includes Swansea city. Swansea was sold for £100m . Burnley was sold for £200m. If inflation matches dilution then there is no financial loss. Someone said Brentford were on the market for £400m. In 5 years Swansea could be worth that as Wood Cabango Govea Parker Lissah and Ronald do their stuff. The Trust holding would be 5% of £400m that is £20m the same they missed out on in 2016. In this case what was lost in dilution was recovered by gains in inflation.
Morris can prevent dilution by continuing to fund the company if he wants to. Laws exist I expect to allow him to do this. He unlike yourself understands how it works. There is only one way to prevent dilution and that is match fund.
The Swansea Trust owns 10% but offer nothing to 'replace the boiler'. They last invested 22 years ago. (The LLP do all the hard yards). Trust not even 10% . They do not want to maintain 10% they are cruising to 5% and freedom from dilution apparently. Once there they can put out the deck chairs and do even less than they do today.
The LLP also own DC United and it was quoted to be worth $800m. They have been talking to Arabs that might be quite keen to own real estate in the capital of the USA for lots of reasons.
Swansea is small potatoes for them. They want to sit at the top table in the Premier league for sure if they can. It is the world's biggest league. The LLP folks have very rich mates that Huw and co could only dream of. If they sell DC they will have a huge capital gains tax bill to pay. Hiving off SCFC losses will reduce this. They will be fabulously rich in time. They were already rich before they bought Swansea . They make money by sweating assets. They must wince when they recall Cooper telling them Gyorkeres was not what he wanted. [Post edited 23 Mar 23:22]
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First paragraoh, utter nonsense, the club is not worth 2 million mre because they have put 2 million in.
Have you heard of the multivariate model?
https://www.aranca.com/knowledge-library/articles/investment-research/multivaria
I think you have just amply demonstrated that YOU do not understand inflation. It increases the running costs, it does NOT directly increase the value of the club because there are so many variables to add in. If "inflation matches dilution" is a pile of nonsense. The clubs value will rise if we are promoted because our revenue will rise by multiples but even so, it may not match the total of dilution, seeing as that could be an ongoing problem for Morris.
Match funding doesn't preven share dilution, if he puts money into the club it's not buying shares, he has to buy more shares to prevent dilution.
DC United fans are very angry with their owners, ann ongoing theme for Kaplan and Levein. In May 2023 they were valued at 700 million dollars. That is based largely on revenue streams I think as I believe they lease the ground, like we do. The league system out there is different to ours but if the club keeps doing badly then the value will fall. Players will want to leave, revenue will drop, assets will be devalued.
One last thing, your point about inflation, it doesn't matter how hgh inflation is, a club can still lose value, a relegation, selling players, revenue streams dropping and something you seem to have forgotten, even if you aren't relegated, of you pay 10 million for a player and he is a complete flop, will anybody pay 10 million to take him off your hands, what do you think Yates' value is today?
Now, sweating assets
‘sweating’ assets the process of increasing the profits generated from a company's ASSETS where the RETURN ON CAPITAL EMPLOYED is inadequate. This could involve increasing selling prices of products; reducing unit production and selling costs; increasing sales volumes using present assets; or reducing the FIXED ASSETS and CURRENT ASSETS employed to achieve the present sales volume. Sweating assets is often a strategy employed after a company has been taken over.
Now how rich are Kaplan and Levein, can they continue to lose tens of millions per year? | | | |
| another 2 million invested on 13:59 - Mar 24 with 637 views | swan_si |
Max, why did you down arrow a newspaper report? 😂😂😂 |  | | |
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