| Are we ever going to own our ground? 10:24 - Jun 19 with 15968 views | daledaledale |
Ten months on since Keith Hill announced the football club were trying to buy Spotland stadium. Does anyone know if we are any closer to completing the sale?
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 14:09 - Jun 20 with 2582 views | TVOS1907 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 13:18 - Jun 20 by mingthemerciless |
I'm not complaining. I'm just pointing out that Hornets didn't really need the improvements you would have liked us to pay for.
For forty five of the past fifty five years I've a been a regular attender at the 'Dale.i was there that day when the first promotion was achieved. I remember slapping Big Reg on the back when we all invaded the pitch at the final whistle that day. I was a pal and ex-team mate of " Ego " who also scored that day.
In fact it was only when I got a serious injury playing Football that I started watching Rugby League in the first place. What has driven me away from watching football at Spotland is the one eyed attitude displayed so eloquently in this thread. |
"... you would have liked us to pay for."
No, you should be contributing towards them as Spotland is a shared facility.
But only when it suits.
I'm just off to ask R17 to pay my road tax seeing as he drives twice as many miles as me in a year. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 14:49 - Jun 20 with 2516 views | TalkingSutty |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 14:09 - Jun 20 by TVOS1907 |
"... you would have liked us to pay for."
No, you should be contributing towards them as Spotland is a shared facility.
But only when it suits.
I'm just off to ask R17 to pay my road tax seeing as he drives twice as many miles as me in a year. |
Am I missing something here, why should Hornets contribute anything towards the stadium apart from paying their rent?
They no longer have any shares in the stadium, so don't have a say on what takes place regarding maintenance matters etc. If I am wrong I stand corrected but I thought the Rugby Football League are now in reciept of the old Hornets shares.
If there is a problem with Hornets playing a bulk of games away from Spotland to facilitate pitch repairs then it's the RFL who we should be dealing with not the tenant. [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 14:52]
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 15:05 - Jun 20 with 2471 views | TVOS1907 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 14:49 - Jun 20 by TalkingSutty |
Am I missing something here, why should Hornets contribute anything towards the stadium apart from paying their rent?
They no longer have any shares in the stadium, so don't have a say on what takes place regarding maintenance matters etc. If I am wrong I stand corrected but I thought the Rugby Football League are now in reciept of the old Hornets shares.
If there is a problem with Hornets playing a bulk of games away from Spotland to facilitate pitch repairs then it's the RFL who we should be dealing with not the tenant. [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 14:52]
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Ming is the one who initially used 'we' and 'us', so presumably he means 'them', as in Hornets.
Whoever 'they' are, they benefit from the investment Dale have put into the pitch and stadium and use the facilities Dale have paid for, despite it being a shared venue. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 15:10 - Jun 20 with 2463 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:59 - Jun 19 by mingthemerciless |
Maybe I'm stupid but why will actually owning the ground automatically turn it into a licence to print money ? |
It won't minger!.........what it will do is allow RAFC to control it's own asset and develop it as THE CLUB feels fit without having to pay for stuff that others (RMBC and Hornets) have not contributed towards. [Post edited 21 Jun 2015 23:47]
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 15:24 - Jun 20 with 2444 views | 49thseason |
On the back of an envelope:
The plot size of the stadium is about 3-4 acres (guess) or about 12 -16,000 sq metres - enough to build say 40 biggish houses or 60 smaller ones or 80 flats, maybe more, so my estimated value of land is about £2-3m (can any builders out there to confirm?).
A 15 year loan of £750,000 would cost about £6000 a month over 15 years at 5% (and less than 7K at 7%) (repayment loan) so about £70 -80K a year - offset by enhanced income
Potential income streams - assuming some refurbishment:
Stadium sponsorship
Rent from Hornets
Bars / restaurant
Meeting room rentals (private boxes re-figured to accommodate different room sizes)
Function rooms
Matchday activities (rugby and football).
Revitalised club shop
RAFC current rent payments would be converted to part of the mortgage payments
Based on these figures I don't see why its not possible to negotiate a loan secured on the ground to cover the debt . The land would be worth three or four times the value of the loan in a reasonably good area to build houses. |  | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 15:30 - Jun 20 with 2433 views | TalkingSutty |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 15:05 - Jun 20 by TVOS1907 |
Ming is the one who initially used 'we' and 'us', so presumably he means 'them', as in Hornets.
Whoever 'they' are, they benefit from the investment Dale have put into the pitch and stadium and use the facilities Dale have paid for, despite it being a shared venue. |
They would be better keeping Schtum because they are on a bloody good thing as it stands.
Probably paying a low rent and obviously contributing nothing to the upkeep or running of the Stadium. The debt on the Stadium will be increasing week by week and as it stands Hornets are not liable for any of it ( You can't get blood out of a stone).
Any Hornets supporter bleating about the pitch repairs needs to take a reality check and thank their lucky stars they have a Stadium to play in. They should be embarrassed at the mess the Football Club has been left to sort out.
I happen to think it would be better to start looking at cutting our losses and explore the idea of starting afresh in a new Stadium. Hornets will always be a leech firmly attached to the arse of the club and this on-going Stadium saga is testament to that.
I think they delight in actually seeing us hemorrhaging money through the Stadium debt, if they are going down they will take us with them. [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 15:33]
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:13 - Jun 20 with 2374 views | TVOS1907 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 15:30 - Jun 20 by TalkingSutty |
They would be better keeping Schtum because they are on a bloody good thing as it stands.
Probably paying a low rent and obviously contributing nothing to the upkeep or running of the Stadium. The debt on the Stadium will be increasing week by week and as it stands Hornets are not liable for any of it ( You can't get blood out of a stone).
Any Hornets supporter bleating about the pitch repairs needs to take a reality check and thank their lucky stars they have a Stadium to play in. They should be embarrassed at the mess the Football Club has been left to sort out.
I happen to think it would be better to start looking at cutting our losses and explore the idea of starting afresh in a new Stadium. Hornets will always be a leech firmly attached to the arse of the club and this on-going Stadium saga is testament to that.
I think they delight in actually seeing us hemorrhaging money through the Stadium debt, if they are going down they will take us with them. [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 15:33]
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Great post.
I wouldn't be keen on moving away from Spotland, but when you look at clubs like Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Walsall and Chesterfield, and all the extra events they are able to attract, it does have some merit if done properly. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:17 - Jun 20 with 2358 views | isitme |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 13:07 - Jun 20 by D_Alien |
You're not wrong.
The contracted firm, E.R.Williams, certainly will be. The question is, why this is happening when services to the elderly and those with disabilities are being cut? So the Labour council can blame their incompetence on "Tory cuts"? That's not to say local government isn't being asked to manage on a reduced budget, but they're "managing" to pay for completely unnecessary work. |
Look at the white elephant that is the Townhead junction.
We used to have a perfectly functioning roundabout. Millions of pounds later and it is still a mess. I will not hold my breath that things will get any better after the weeks of disruption and millions more pounds being spent on it. I suspect it will overrun and end up costing more than budgeted. When you are spending tax payers money, it does not matter.
As for the Hornets supporter on here. They obviously don't understand the principle of merit goods.
Dale don't pay for pitch renovations and up keep and eventually it will not be playable, even for rugby. Pitch covers help to preserve the surface so that is plays better later in the season, often when Hornets are playing their early chunk of home games.
If they paid their rent, I had no issue with Hornets playing at Spotland, but with the two incidents this week I coming around to the idea of kick them out and let them play at Mayfield, as it appears they have a number of ungrateful supporters. |  | | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:42 - Jun 20 with 2308 views | funkkk |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:13 - Jun 20 by TVOS1907 |
Great post.
I wouldn't be keen on moving away from Spotland, but when you look at clubs like Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Walsall and Chesterfield, and all the extra events they are able to attract, it does have some merit if done properly. |
A new stadium would be amazing but where would the money come from? The council aren't going to help are they!? |  | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:03 - Jun 20 with 2280 views | TVOS1907 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:42 - Jun 20 by funkkk |
A new stadium would be amazing but where would the money come from? The council aren't going to help are they!? |
No, it is probably a pipe dream, in all honesty. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:33 - Jun 20 with 2232 views | D_Alien |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:17 - Jun 20 by isitme |
Look at the white elephant that is the Townhead junction.
We used to have a perfectly functioning roundabout. Millions of pounds later and it is still a mess. I will not hold my breath that things will get any better after the weeks of disruption and millions more pounds being spent on it. I suspect it will overrun and end up costing more than budgeted. When you are spending tax payers money, it does not matter.
As for the Hornets supporter on here. They obviously don't understand the principle of merit goods.
Dale don't pay for pitch renovations and up keep and eventually it will not be playable, even for rugby. Pitch covers help to preserve the surface so that is plays better later in the season, often when Hornets are playing their early chunk of home games.
If they paid their rent, I had no issue with Hornets playing at Spotland, but with the two incidents this week I coming around to the idea of kick them out and let them play at Mayfield, as it appears they have a number of ungrateful supporters. |
Whilst I agree with you on both counts, unfortunately the chances of Dale achieving closure (if that's the right term in this context) on stadium ownership would be massively hampered if not scuppered if we attempted to exclude Hornets. So we're stuck with them, and just like any other scroungers they're bloody ungrateful. |  |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:57 - Jun 20 with 2191 views | mingthemerciless |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:17 - Jun 20 by isitme |
Look at the white elephant that is the Townhead junction.
We used to have a perfectly functioning roundabout. Millions of pounds later and it is still a mess. I will not hold my breath that things will get any better after the weeks of disruption and millions more pounds being spent on it. I suspect it will overrun and end up costing more than budgeted. When you are spending tax payers money, it does not matter.
As for the Hornets supporter on here. They obviously don't understand the principle of merit goods.
Dale don't pay for pitch renovations and up keep and eventually it will not be playable, even for rugby. Pitch covers help to preserve the surface so that is plays better later in the season, often when Hornets are playing their early chunk of home games.
If they paid their rent, I had no issue with Hornets playing at Spotland, but with the two incidents this week I coming around to the idea of kick them out and let them play at Mayfield, as it appears they have a number of ungrateful supporters. |
Would you care to enlighten me regarding the " two incidents " ? It appears I've missed something of massive importance. | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:07 - Jun 20 with 2162 views | TVOS1907 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:57 - Jun 20 by mingthemerciless |
Would you care to enlighten me regarding the " two incidents " ? It appears I've missed something of massive importance. |
Could be wrong, but I think isitme means the letter in the Observer and your stance on here. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:07 - Jun 20 with 2160 views | 442Dale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:57 - Jun 20 by mingthemerciless |
Would you care to enlighten me regarding the " two incidents " ? It appears I've missed something of massive importance. |
But the pitch covers, have they never been used?
Reiterating an earlier post about the rights and wrongs of whether some Dale fans still hold a negative view towards Hornets because of what may or may not have gone on the past: if the attitude displayed on this thread has driven you away from watching Dale, why frequent a Dale forum where such an attitude, rightly or wrongly, is more likely to be prevalent than on a matchday at Spotland when football is being played?
I'd guess that there's more likely to be conversation about the stadium company/Hornets/rugby/the council taking place on this forum than there would be in the Sandy Lane when we're at home to Gillingham on a Tuesday night. So why not get yourself back to watching your local side? We're pretty good as well. |  |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:17 - Jun 20 with 2135 views | TalkingSutty |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:57 - Jun 20 by mingthemerciless |
Would you care to enlighten me regarding the " two incidents " ? It appears I've missed something of massive importance. |
Hello Ming,
Just out of interest do you think that it's fair that the Football Club are left holding the baby in respect of maintaining the Stadium and do you envisage Hornets or the RFL servicing the Stadium debt?
What would you suggest as the best way forward in clearing the debt and paying for the running and upkeep of the stadium?
You are a supporter of both clubs so it would be interesting to read a balanced opinion and one that isn't loaded against the Football Club.
Finally, can you understand the anger and frustration of the Football fans when indirectly we are paying out of our own pockets to help keep the Stadium afloat? | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 20:53 - Jun 20 with 2017 views | YouTubeDale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:17 - Jun 20 by TalkingSutty |
Hello Ming,
Just out of interest do you think that it's fair that the Football Club are left holding the baby in respect of maintaining the Stadium and do you envisage Hornets or the RFL servicing the Stadium debt?
What would you suggest as the best way forward in clearing the debt and paying for the running and upkeep of the stadium?
You are a supporter of both clubs so it would be interesting to read a balanced opinion and one that isn't loaded against the Football Club.
Finally, can you understand the anger and frustration of the Football fans when indirectly we are paying out of our own pockets to help keep the Stadium afloat? |
Don't you mean "directly" ,as I've already pointed out, to the tune of circa £95k.
...mmm I wonder what the ramifications would be if we took the Stadium Company to court demanding our £95k back? Perhaps we could acquire the ground for a lot less than we are offering.
Interesting. [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 20:58]
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 22:10 - Jun 20 with 1946 views | isitme |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:07 - Jun 20 by TVOS1907 |
Could be wrong, but I think isitme means the letter in the Observer and your stance on here. |
I do. | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 10:42 - Jun 21 with 1796 views | mingthemerciless |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:07 - Jun 20 by 442Dale |
But the pitch covers, have they never been used?
Reiterating an earlier post about the rights and wrongs of whether some Dale fans still hold a negative view towards Hornets because of what may or may not have gone on the past: if the attitude displayed on this thread has driven you away from watching Dale, why frequent a Dale forum where such an attitude, rightly or wrongly, is more likely to be prevalent than on a matchday at Spotland when football is being played?
I'd guess that there's more likely to be conversation about the stadium company/Hornets/rugby/the council taking place on this forum than there would be in the Sandy Lane when we're at home to Gillingham on a Tuesday night. So why not get yourself back to watching your local side? We're pretty good as well. |
I come on this site because for 45 ish years I watched the team. Plenty of good games, the odd really great game. Plenty of bad ones too but that's sport at the lower levels. If there is a thread that I can contribute to I will. Normally it's only relating to stuff in the past now.
Like a few people of my era I've sort of fallen out of love with football in general. If you'd have told me that even 10 years ago I'd have laughed in your face.The crazy wages, the diving, off the field antics, the un approachability of the players, stultifying styles of play. It's all been said before I suppose. Plus the fact it's not exactly cheap to watch these days. | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 10:45 - Jun 21 with 1787 views | mingthemerciless |
I just realised that given my first game was in 1962 I've been watching 50 odd years . That's scary, even 45 years seems a long while. | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 11:27 - Jun 21 with 1723 views | 442Dale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 10:42 - Jun 21 by mingthemerciless |
I come on this site because for 45 ish years I watched the team. Plenty of good games, the odd really great game. Plenty of bad ones too but that's sport at the lower levels. If there is a thread that I can contribute to I will. Normally it's only relating to stuff in the past now.
Like a few people of my era I've sort of fallen out of love with football in general. If you'd have told me that even 10 years ago I'd have laughed in your face.The crazy wages, the diving, off the field antics, the un approachability of the players, stultifying styles of play. It's all been said before I suppose. Plus the fact it's not exactly cheap to watch these days. |
All fair enough, but do you accept that by posting things that others might challenge that this is exactly how such forums thrive?
It's sometimes nothing to do with people having an "attitude", but merely asking someone else to qualify their opinion or respond to follow up questions. Like the one about the pitch covers. Or the ones TalkingSutty has posted.
All very valid and keeping the debate going. | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 11:38 - Jun 21 with 1700 views | TVOS1907 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 10:42 - Jun 21 by mingthemerciless |
I come on this site because for 45 ish years I watched the team. Plenty of good games, the odd really great game. Plenty of bad ones too but that's sport at the lower levels. If there is a thread that I can contribute to I will. Normally it's only relating to stuff in the past now.
Like a few people of my era I've sort of fallen out of love with football in general. If you'd have told me that even 10 years ago I'd have laughed in your face.The crazy wages, the diving, off the field antics, the un approachability of the players, stultifying styles of play. It's all been said before I suppose. Plus the fact it's not exactly cheap to watch these days. |
Very interesting, although I'd say most of what you've posted is more to do with the Premier League than what happens at Dale games.
Have you got any answers to TS's questions? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 12:09 - Jun 21 with 1668 views | flyerdale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:03 - Jun 20 by TVOS1907 |
No, it is probably a pipe dream, in all honesty. |
Call their bluff and start making enquiries into moving location and watch the council start jumping through hoops to get the deal done. |  | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 12:32 - Jun 21 with 1649 views | Bobbyjoe |
I don't understand why owning the ground is even desirable. As things stand, it's of no value as anything other than a sports venue. Once it is in private ownership it becomes subject to predatory takeovers, with an incentive to run the football club down, and sell the asset for housing. | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 12:49 - Jun 21 with 1614 views | mingthemerciless |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 11:27 - Jun 21 by 442Dale |
All fair enough, but do you accept that by posting things that others might challenge that this is exactly how such forums thrive?
It's sometimes nothing to do with people having an "attitude", but merely asking someone else to qualify their opinion or respond to follow up questions. Like the one about the pitch covers. Or the ones TalkingSutty has posted.
All very valid and keeping the debate going. |
I've no real memory of Hornets ever using the pitch covers. Could it be that in the instance he refers to they had been left in place for a Football match that actually didn't take place the previous day ? I'm 99% sure that Hornets v Saints game he refers to still failed to beat the weather In spite of the pitch being covered. If I'm right the usual shaded bit down the front of the main stand was still frozen although the rest of the pitch was playable.
One instance in God knows how many years hardly constitutes a trend does it ?
I still think it's a poor do that the Town's two professional sports team can't share the ground on a more amicable basis. I also think the new Co-op Hornets is still being tarred with the old Hornets brush. | | | |
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