| After 34 games 22:51 - Mar 9 with 9237 views | simmo |
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_i
19/20: 34 games, 12 wins, 7 draws, 15 losses, -7 GD, 43pts & 15th
20/21: 34 games, 12 wins, 10 draws, 12 losses, -4 GD, 46pts & 12th
If you just took Eze out of this team you'd say that being in a similar position would be very good going. But Eze plus Bright, Manning, Wells, Hugill (and to a degree) Leistner & Rangel... That's some effort, even in a slightly worse league.
I was very critical of our January window, especially with how slow we were to address key positions, but to a man every addition has hit the ground running and adding them to Dickie and Dieng along with a change of formation has transformed this team and made us all but safe by March. Excellent work.
[Post edited 9 Mar 2021 22:53]
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| After 34 games on 14:22 - Mar 11 with 1822 views | PhilmyRs |
| After 34 games on 13:56 - Mar 11 by simmo |
I think the problem with Chair is that, with his size, he has to be a pretty exceptional talent to move into the Premiership. Teams can generally have 1 or maybe 2 number 10 style technicians at a push and which PL team will be making Chair that man? I love him; he works hard, always gives his all, has a beautiful touch and can ping a shot from 25 yards as well as anyone - but 7 goals 1 assist (even if that last stat is bollocks) isn't going to be enough to propel him...
Maybe another Championship club higher and with more resources than us would take him, but then it wouldn't be the big money we're after. I think another season here at least makes the most sense. He plays in front of the fans again, can improve his decision making and end product, get another 50 odd games under his belt and show he's outgrown us. At the moment I am not sure he can claim that. |
I'm not sure I agree that Chair is pigeon holed as a number 10. Was it Bircham on the podcast that flagged the range of positions he can play in? - e.g. out wide, a box to box midfielder, number 10 etc. FWIW I could see him being a decent Xavi/Iniesta type midfielder given his excellent short passing game. He's deceptively strong too.
TBH, if most clubs view him as a technical 10, you're probably right, we'd stand more chance of keeping him so not a bad thing but I think he can adapt and wouldn't be surprised if someone took a punt on a technical, talented midfielder that will only improve and could cover a range of positions. [Post edited 11 Mar 2021 14:23]
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| After 34 games on 14:27 - Mar 11 with 1800 views | Antti_Heinola |
| After 34 games on 12:54 - Mar 11 by simmo |
I think the key to consistency is keeping the existing talent and then building. But will we be forced to sell at least 1 in the summer, or is our wage bill now manageable enough that we can retain the players we have for another season at least?
I think on current form, Dickie and Dieng will both be hard to hold onto this year. Both have rare skill sets and are well suited for a step up, Although both have a long time to go so we have the power to hold out for a relatively big fee. Chair I think will stay at least another year and that's about it for players in big demand.
As for the loans, it would be great to keep them all on. De Wijs and Field look sewn up if we like (and it's still VERY early days for Jordy, so let's wait and see more on that one), but Johansen and Austin will rely massively on stars aligning and the players making big financial compromises. How often does that actually happen, realistically? Have there been many examples of Championship teams keeping thier successful PL loans without promotion? |
Not a chance in hell Dickie is going anywhere this summer.
I know we all love him, and he's probably 2nd in POTS after the goalie, but no Prem club is going to bid for him, and no champ club will have the finances to buy him one year into his contract.
He is a good championship centre back at the moment. He may become excellent. Ain't no one bidding the £5m+ it would take to get him now. No way.
Dieng, however... a prem club might be tempted with a £10m bid in the summer, in which case, we'd have to sell sadly. |  |
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| After 34 games on 14:33 - Mar 11 with 1782 views | WatfordR |
| After 34 games on 14:27 - Mar 11 by Antti_Heinola |
Not a chance in hell Dickie is going anywhere this summer.
I know we all love him, and he's probably 2nd in POTS after the goalie, but no Prem club is going to bid for him, and no champ club will have the finances to buy him one year into his contract.
He is a good championship centre back at the moment. He may become excellent. Ain't no one bidding the £5m+ it would take to get him now. No way.
Dieng, however... a prem club might be tempted with a £10m bid in the summer, in which case, we'd have to sell sadly. |
That's probably a good and accurate analysis, and as much as I'd love us to keep Dieng, arguably he'd be the easiest to replace within budget with a competent keeper. |  | | |
| After 34 games on 14:54 - Mar 11 with 1746 views | swisscottage |
| After 34 games on 14:33 - Mar 11 by WatfordR |
That's probably a good and accurate analysis, and as much as I'd love us to keep Dieng, arguably he'd be the easiest to replace within budget with a competent keeper. |
I don't think Dieng would be easy to replace at all in fact I would state there isn't a keeper outside the premiership that is as complete a keeper as Senny has been this season... even Smithies.
I honestly think his season this year is as good as any keeper we've had since Seaman.
I think he'd be by far the most difficult to replace. | | | |
| After 34 games on 15:03 - Mar 11 with 1724 views | Myke |
| After 34 games on 14:33 - Mar 11 by WatfordR |
That's probably a good and accurate analysis, and as much as I'd love us to keep Dieng, arguably he'd be the easiest to replace within budget with a competent keeper. |
If we get north of 5m he will be on his way... it would represent great financial business but a blow football wise. Big step for young Walsh | | | |
| After 34 games on 15:06 - Mar 11 with 1720 views | WatfordR |
| After 34 games on 14:54 - Mar 11 by swisscottage |
I don't think Dieng would be easy to replace at all in fact I would state there isn't a keeper outside the premiership that is as complete a keeper as Senny has been this season... even Smithies.
I honestly think his season this year is as good as any keeper we've had since Seaman.
I think he'd be by far the most difficult to replace. |
I agree he's looked a cut above, but what I mean is I feel it would be easier to find a competent replacement at Championship level. It won't need to be another Dieng, nice as that would be, it just needs to be someone who's experienced enough to do a competent job.
If he costs us three to six points more over the course of the season because he isn't Seny, that's ok in my opinion. You can offset that by the the additional points we get by having money available to buy better quality players in front of him to the point where the cons are outweighed by the pros.
If it meant we can permanently sign Austin, Johansen, Field and De Wijs for example, I think that's a benefit to the club. | | | |
| After 34 games on 15:07 - Mar 11 with 1719 views | simmo |
| After 34 games on 14:27 - Mar 11 by Antti_Heinola |
Not a chance in hell Dickie is going anywhere this summer.
I know we all love him, and he's probably 2nd in POTS after the goalie, but no Prem club is going to bid for him, and no champ club will have the finances to buy him one year into his contract.
He is a good championship centre back at the moment. He may become excellent. Ain't no one bidding the £5m+ it would take to get him now. No way.
Dieng, however... a prem club might be tempted with a £10m bid in the summer, in which case, we'd have to sell sadly. |
Maybe I overrate Dickie and it's not yet been a full season at this level, but a genuine ball-playing centre back that's also 6ft+, great in the air, doesn't dive in, physically strong and able to play in a back 2 and 3 just as comfortably... There's a lot less of those than you think, not to mention he's British, which matter more now.
Brighton as an example have a track record of paying very good money for similar profiles and with more and more emphasis on teams having ball players at every position, I think he's going to be our best financial prospect.
Agree in part that 1 year is likely too early, but he's handled this step up with relative ease and with little interviews and sky sports pieces discussing his ambitions, he's obviously got a team behind him that know what they're doing.
Dieng will 100% be in demand as early as this summer. I know we have that Gillingham lad lined up long term, but you expect he will go on loan next season with a view to coming back and maybe taking over then. Keepers never seem to go for enough either, certainly not relative to their importance in a team like ours. I am optimistic we keep him and Virgil Van Dickie for another year at least, let them play in front of us for a season! | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| After 34 games on 15:56 - Mar 11 with 1678 views | kensalriser |
Dieng’s been great but 10 mil, come on! Nobody’s going to pay that for a keeper from a mid table Champ side. 5 would be going some. |  |
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| After 34 games on 16:04 - Mar 11 with 1655 views | qprphil |
| After 34 games on 15:56 - Mar 11 by kensalriser |
Dieng’s been great but 10 mil, come on! Nobody’s going to pay that for a keeper from a mid table Champ side. 5 would be going some. |
You may be surprised what someone might pay imo........ | | | |
| After 34 games on 16:07 - Mar 11 with 1652 views | PinnerPaul |
| After 34 games on 15:56 - Mar 11 by kensalriser |
Dieng’s been great but 10 mil, come on! Nobody’s going to pay that for a keeper from a mid table Champ side. 5 would be going some. |
Yep and same applies to Dickie who has been superb, but his lack of pace is there for all to see. | | | |
| After 34 games on 17:54 - Mar 11 with 1584 views | Antti_Heinola |
| After 34 games on 15:56 - Mar 11 by kensalriser |
Dieng’s been great but 10 mil, come on! Nobody’s going to pay that for a keeper from a mid table Champ side. 5 would be going some. |
I hope they don't!
But first year of the contract they would have to imo, or no point in us selling. Selling him for £5m one year into a 4 year deal would be madness. Unless we desperately need the money, we hold all the cards there, so £10m, if a team really wanted him, is not a lot. Especially for a prem team. | |
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| After 34 games on 18:07 - Mar 11 with 1554 views | bakerloo8 |
Couldn't see Seny leaving for less than about 8m. Any less and it's not worth it as he probably worth 5-10pts at this level.
Dickie is having a great season. Unlike Dieng I dont think hes ready for the top level yet as hes not the complete centre back. Another year with us where he learns better positioning and how to overcome his pace with better reading of the game, then he may go up to the Prem. Seny is oven ready now imo. |  | | |
| After 34 games on 18:23 - Mar 11 with 1532 views | daveB |
| After 34 games on 13:43 - Mar 10 by Gloucs_R |
Great turn around and hats off to Warbs.
Why though, did we start the season thinking we'd be ok with what we had? Have the summer signings just not been good enough? If so, who is to blame for that?
It's brilliant we've now invested in some quality, but the majority of us were screaming out for that at the beginning of the season.
Edit...Dickie had been the only consistent player to have signed in the summer. Willock is coming good. [Post edited 10 Mar 2021 13:47]
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We were 9th when the transfer window shut so it's reasonable to have thought we wouldn't have fallen apart in the 2 months before the next window opened.
Were the January signings even available back in October? |  | | |
| After 34 games on 18:39 - Mar 11 with 1506 views | kensalriser |
| After 34 games on 17:54 - Mar 11 by Antti_Heinola |
I hope they don't!
But first year of the contract they would have to imo, or no point in us selling. Selling him for £5m one year into a 4 year deal would be madness. Unless we desperately need the money, we hold all the cards there, so £10m, if a team really wanted him, is not a lot. Especially for a prem team. |
Nah, this is just hyperbolic. We habitually overrate our better players and underrate the worse. If we overvalue the length of his contract a buyer will find another keeper with a shorter deal. A lot of people overestimated Eze’s fee by 50%.
Twelve Champ sides have let in fewer goals than QPR this season. | |
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| After 34 games on 19:49 - Mar 11 with 1435 views | Antti_Heinola |
| After 34 games on 18:39 - Mar 11 by kensalriser |
Nah, this is just hyperbolic. We habitually overrate our better players and underrate the worse. If we overvalue the length of his contract a buyer will find another keeper with a shorter deal. A lot of people overestimated Eze’s fee by 50%.
Twelve Champ sides have let in fewer goals than QPR this season. |
nah, you're not really seeing what I'm saying.
Dieng is in the first year of his deal, therefore there's a huge premium on that because the club has no need to even think about selling.
Have a look at these stats:
Dieng is smashing it everywhere. If you don't think Prem teams are looking at him you're in a dreamworld. And if a Prem team wants to sign him this summer (the only two keepers performing as consistently as him are the ageing Krul (going up anyway) and Begovic) they will need to pay a hefty fee. My point is, given we hold all the cards, selling him for less than £10m this summer would be madness. Summer 2022, when he only has two years left, he is more likely to go, and then, yes, perhaps for less than £10m, because we might be actively trying to sell (unless he continues to improve as much as he has done). But if more than one club wants him, the price could go up very quickly. Good keepers are very rare, and he is a great age and has got it all imo. | |
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| After 34 games on 19:57 - Mar 11 with 1420 views | toboboly |
| After 34 games on 19:49 - Mar 11 by Antti_Heinola |
nah, you're not really seeing what I'm saying.
Dieng is in the first year of his deal, therefore there's a huge premium on that because the club has no need to even think about selling.
Have a look at these stats:
Dieng is smashing it everywhere. If you don't think Prem teams are looking at him you're in a dreamworld. And if a Prem team wants to sign him this summer (the only two keepers performing as consistently as him are the ageing Krul (going up anyway) and Begovic) they will need to pay a hefty fee. My point is, given we hold all the cards, selling him for less than £10m this summer would be madness. Summer 2022, when he only has two years left, he is more likely to go, and then, yes, perhaps for less than £10m, because we might be actively trying to sell (unless he continues to improve as much as he has done). But if more than one club wants him, the price could go up very quickly. Good keepers are very rare, and he is a great age and has got it all imo. |
Think i saw those on your twitter earlier. He is consistently amazing, and this is from a Lumley fan. Guy has been different class. He's a PL keeper and we should be looking for Eze money. |  |
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| After 34 games on 21:13 - Mar 11 with 1353 views | Myke |
| After 34 games on 17:54 - Mar 11 by Antti_Heinola |
I hope they don't!
But first year of the contract they would have to imo, or no point in us selling. Selling him for £5m one year into a 4 year deal would be madness. Unless we desperately need the money, we hold all the cards there, so £10m, if a team really wanted him, is not a lot. Especially for a prem team. |
I'm with Kensalriser on this one. I am impressed with the figures Antti, even though I only gave them a cursory glance as numbers hurt my head. But I think you are missing a couple of important points.(1) The four year contract is what 'guarantees' the 5 mil not 10mil. If he was on a 2 year deal he would 2-3 mil. You need to keep in mind what we got for Smithies, who was of comparable ability and promptly never got a game for Cardiff, even though they were relegated. As Kensalriser said, if we go for more money, the suitors will simply look for another back-up keeper elsewhere.
The second consideration is that he has zero premier league experience and indeed only a handful of championship games. He has done very well but he has made errors, that if Lumley had committed he would have been slaughtered for (Derby's goal, Wycombe's goal and a couple of dodgy clearances v Brentford come to mind). Also he is operating in the relatively sterile atmosphere, far removed from the white- hot atmosphere of a crowd baying for blood.
(3) We simply are not financially strong enough yet to play 'hard-ball' and hold out for more money. The 'give-aways' of Manning and BOS,has weakened our financial position (not to mention covid) and we cannot take the risk that he would not sustain a long-term injury or simply lose form. It is the one position (as Lumley knows only too well, considering he got blamed for a goal against Coventry that was headed in from virtually under the crossbar) that there is no place to hide and there is no forgiveness for errors.
I believe he will be sold for 4-6 mill + add ons and that Walsh /Lumley will operate in goal next season. | | | |
| After 34 games on 21:21 - Mar 11 with 1336 views | 1JD |
| After 34 games on 18:39 - Mar 11 by kensalriser |
Nah, this is just hyperbolic. We habitually overrate our better players and underrate the worse. If we overvalue the length of his contract a buyer will find another keeper with a shorter deal. A lot of people overestimated Eze’s fee by 50%.
Twelve Champ sides have let in fewer goals than QPR this season. |
It’s nothing to do with what QPR Fans rate players as, and everything to do with what the market says they are worth.
In a world of stats, data, and more stats, just like the stock market, football players are sold based on comparative data ie. goals, assists, clean sheets, pass completion etc, which are 1. directly ranked against their peers, and 2. directly compared to previously sold players of similar statistics, performance and age.
Additionally, variables such as contract length, years of high performance, number of bidders, desperation of selling club, also contribute to setting the value / price. Not to mention “how much ” a club wants a player. Ie. Villa paying an astonishing 33m for Watkins who had never played in the prem at the time, being a good and recent example.
As far as goalkeepers go, then David Raya is the nearest in age and stats to Dieng, and last summer the transfer was set at 10-12m to Arsenal but later fell through. That’s the current benchmark for Dieng, as like Raya, he on a long term deal and QPR do not need to sell. But he may need another season at this level to get to that value...premier league clubs tend to want to see 2 seasons of consistency before they make their move. Unless of course someone desperately wants to take him out this summer, which is possible. As far as how much he could potentially go for... then Aaron Ramsdale set a recent benchmark at 20m going from Bournemouth to Sheff Utd, but probably aided by a few premier league appearances under his belt.
As for Dickie; we bought him in a 2.5m package in the last year of his deal. in effect valuing at approximately double, had he been contracted on a longer term deal. So in normal circumstances, under contract, he was being valued at around 4-5m in league 1. Sounds expensive? Think again and look at what Matt Clarke was sold from Ipswich to Pompey when he went from league 1 to the championship. It was 3.5m rising to a 6m deal.
Dickie is already worth double his league one market value ie 10m this summer, based on his outstanding season and age, putting him in the bracket of Enzri Konsa who went for 12m after not even one season at this level. His value will likely double again with another season of high performance, putting him the same bracket as the leagues top young CBs who have ascended to the prem in recent times; Adam Webster at 20m rising to 24m setting a benchmark. | | | |
| After 34 games on 22:46 - Mar 11 with 1272 views | Gloucs_R |
| After 34 games on 21:21 - Mar 11 by 1JD |
It’s nothing to do with what QPR Fans rate players as, and everything to do with what the market says they are worth.
In a world of stats, data, and more stats, just like the stock market, football players are sold based on comparative data ie. goals, assists, clean sheets, pass completion etc, which are 1. directly ranked against their peers, and 2. directly compared to previously sold players of similar statistics, performance and age.
Additionally, variables such as contract length, years of high performance, number of bidders, desperation of selling club, also contribute to setting the value / price. Not to mention “how much ” a club wants a player. Ie. Villa paying an astonishing 33m for Watkins who had never played in the prem at the time, being a good and recent example.
As far as goalkeepers go, then David Raya is the nearest in age and stats to Dieng, and last summer the transfer was set at 10-12m to Arsenal but later fell through. That’s the current benchmark for Dieng, as like Raya, he on a long term deal and QPR do not need to sell. But he may need another season at this level to get to that value...premier league clubs tend to want to see 2 seasons of consistency before they make their move. Unless of course someone desperately wants to take him out this summer, which is possible. As far as how much he could potentially go for... then Aaron Ramsdale set a recent benchmark at 20m going from Bournemouth to Sheff Utd, but probably aided by a few premier league appearances under his belt.
As for Dickie; we bought him in a 2.5m package in the last year of his deal. in effect valuing at approximately double, had he been contracted on a longer term deal. So in normal circumstances, under contract, he was being valued at around 4-5m in league 1. Sounds expensive? Think again and look at what Matt Clarke was sold from Ipswich to Pompey when he went from league 1 to the championship. It was 3.5m rising to a 6m deal.
Dickie is already worth double his league one market value ie 10m this summer, based on his outstanding season and age, putting him in the bracket of Enzri Konsa who went for 12m after not even one season at this level. His value will likely double again with another season of high performance, putting him the same bracket as the leagues top young CBs who have ascended to the prem in recent times; Adam Webster at 20m rising to 24m setting a benchmark. |
Liam Kelly getting rave reviews in Scotland. He was average for us but I don't think we should write him off yet.
The Wycombe keeper is well thought of too. But it didn't work out so well for the last keeper we took from then. |  |
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| After 34 games on 23:42 - Mar 11 with 1204 views | karl |
I liked Dillon Barnes in his handful of games at Hibs, better than Seny in his loan at Dundee.
Liam Kelly is playing very well for Motherwell but I fear he's just not able to cope with his lack of height in the Championship, he's a good keeper but missing that key element.
Obviously we need Joe Lumley on the bench at the moment but if he could go on loan and get some games I'd hope he maybe got his mojo back?
Keep Seny for the start of next season, loan out Joe and have Kelly as back up/sub?
Lumley is a good keeper who hit bad form, I hope he can get back to his best level |  | | |
| After 34 games on 23:54 - Mar 11 with 1193 views | DavieQPR |
I wonder how much it is a case of the club saving money up until the January window and then spending a bit in the 2nd half of the season to stop us being relegated. |  | | |
| After 34 games on 12:58 - Mar 12 with 1037 views | kensalriser |
Great stats Antti, but I’m not arguing he isn’t a good keeper, even if he has only played two thirds of a season at this level. If you’re saying the club shouldn’t sell for less than 10m that’s one thing, I’m saying I can’t see anyone offering that. We’ll find out in the summer. | |
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| After 34 games on 13:17 - Mar 12 with 1010 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| After 34 games on 19:49 - Mar 11 by Antti_Heinola |
nah, you're not really seeing what I'm saying.
Dieng is in the first year of his deal, therefore there's a huge premium on that because the club has no need to even think about selling.
Have a look at these stats:
Dieng is smashing it everywhere. If you don't think Prem teams are looking at him you're in a dreamworld. And if a Prem team wants to sign him this summer (the only two keepers performing as consistently as him are the ageing Krul (going up anyway) and Begovic) they will need to pay a hefty fee. My point is, given we hold all the cards, selling him for less than £10m this summer would be madness. Summer 2022, when he only has two years left, he is more likely to go, and then, yes, perhaps for less than £10m, because we might be actively trying to sell (unless he continues to improve as much as he has done). But if more than one club wants him, the price could go up very quickly. Good keepers are very rare, and he is a great age and has got it all imo. |
Yes, I agree. He looks a very special prospect; I love his confidence in coming and claiming the ball on crosses. It's not fair but compare that to how Lumley was by the end - barely moving off his line and hardly making any saves. The number of points Dieng has already won us this season with a crucial save at 0-0 must be significant. I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves in the summer but at least he'll go for a large sum. And we must find a quality replacement if this happens. | | | |
| After 34 games on 13:49 - Mar 12 with 966 views | R_from_afar |
| After 34 games on 23:54 - Mar 11 by DavieQPR |
I wonder how much it is a case of the club saving money up until the January window and then spending a bit in the 2nd half of the season to stop us being relegated. |
Your point reminds me of something I have been pondering. I think the board base what they do in the January window on where we are in the table. Perhaps that is abundantly clear to all of you or a statement of the blooming obvious, but I think that if we look safe but unlikely to go up, the board will look to sell players. Flirting with relegation, then we invest. Good chance of promotion - not something we have experienced recently - and they will invest to try to get us over the line.
I think the January window part of the strategy is always flexible, so it can be tweaked based on how our season is going.
Just my burnt offering. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| After 34 games on 14:23 - Mar 12 with 937 views | DWQPR |
Not since Phil Parkes have I seen a QPR keeper dominate his area the way that Seny does. He knows when a ball is his and he knows he is going to get it, either by catching or on the rare occasion, punching, and when he punches he does punch it. In many ways he really does remind me of Parkes. An excellent keeper now and someone who has not even got close to reaching his prime. | |
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