| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:27 - Jan 26 with 1717 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:17 - Jan 26 by monmouth |
Giving GM a three year bumper contract in the summer might be a reasonable place to point a finger, if you're of the finger pointing persuasion. We are still literally paying for that decision. |
Thing is not many were complaining at the move in the summer. On paper it looked a wise move to tie down a relatively hot property as a manager. A salutary lesson on how quickly things can change I guess. Anyway, as I understand it, there were clauses in place for termination.
But yes, that's one of the things that needs looking at. The big one for me though is recruitment ... we signed badly this summer, Ayew aside ... and even he's a bit of a square peg. |  |
|  |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:27 - Jan 26 with 1713 views | costalotta |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:04 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
Why does it come down to a matter of blame? This need to single reasons out I never understand ... it's counter productive when done at this moment but also it's never just one reason anyway. Plus any reason is subjective.
Personally I can see a lot of causes for our current malaise ... some poor recruitment, a management structure that ultimately failed to arrest a worrying downturn in form, some woefully underperforming players to name but three. What the club needs to do is get to the bottom of those things that went wrong, understand why, and implement a solution. Preferably in a calm, rational manner.
Nobody's pinning this all on Monk, least of all the Trust statement, and if they are it's misguided IMO. He made some fundamental mistakes IMO but he is not alone in that. |
Calm down!
I know what you are saying regarding how we go about the inquiry/getting to the bottom of things.
However, perhaps blame is the wrong word and accountability it a better one. That's key here. The club make a big thing about how we are run, what finances we have. what we will and wont do etc etc but they also hide behind this too. Sometimes to great effect but sometimes it fails.
In business if you make a mistake it costs somewhere... Usually those who make a mistake will get to learn from it. If they make the same mistake again its usually goodbye! and that is how it should be IMO.
Regarding Monk. I agree, its not all his fault. Its not his fault he was not experienced enough. Its not his fault he was offered the role. It is his fault though in terms of performance and management of the team. You can't blame monk for monk getting the job in the first place or the 3 year extension, which is and was totally ridiculous! |  | | |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:28 - Jan 26 with 1710 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:22 - Jan 26 by JackSwanTV |
I've not blamed anyone.
But I think a line that says monk spent £50 million and was backed, without mentioning how much he brought in over this time (when it was probably over £40 million) is designed for you and I to make up our own mind as to who is at fault.,,,,,, don't you? |
Or, alternatively, it was made to highlight that the club have spent a lot of money in recent times and have a history of backing the manager with their hard earned? | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:28 - Jan 26 with 1704 views | Dr_Winston |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:17 - Jan 26 by monmouth |
Giving GM a three year bumper contract in the summer might be a reasonable place to point a finger, if you're of the finger pointing persuasion. We are still literally paying for that decision. |
Particularly if, in the chairman's own words, we had stood still for the six months prior to awarding it. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:28 - Jan 26 with 1703 views | monmouth |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:22 - Jan 26 by JackSwanTV |
I've not blamed anyone.
But I think a line that says monk spent £50 million and was backed, without mentioning how much he brought in over this time (when it was probably over £40 million) is designed for you and I to make up our own mind as to who is at fault.,,,,,, don't you? |
Serious question. Why are you so pathologically obsessed with that one item when it is probably one of the least important parts of the whole statement. Don't you agree with the dilemma that has been set out; the horns of which we are impaled clearly upon?
Or are you saying the whole statement is rubbish and the Trust is the board's poodle because of that one item. Because if you are, then you need help.
Grow up. |  |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:31 - Jan 26 with 1691 views | costalotta |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:28 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
Or, alternatively, it was made to highlight that the club have spent a lot of money in recent times and have a history of backing the manager with their hard earned? |
So it was the manager that was responsible for recruitment?
I thought it was the Board and in particular Huw? | | | |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:33 - Jan 26 with 1682 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:27 - Jan 26 by costalotta |
Calm down!
I know what you are saying regarding how we go about the inquiry/getting to the bottom of things.
However, perhaps blame is the wrong word and accountability it a better one. That's key here. The club make a big thing about how we are run, what finances we have. what we will and wont do etc etc but they also hide behind this too. Sometimes to great effect but sometimes it fails.
In business if you make a mistake it costs somewhere... Usually those who make a mistake will get to learn from it. If they make the same mistake again its usually goodbye! and that is how it should be IMO.
Regarding Monk. I agree, its not all his fault. Its not his fault he was not experienced enough. Its not his fault he was offered the role. It is his fault though in terms of performance and management of the team. You can't blame monk for monk getting the job in the first place or the 3 year extension, which is and was totally ridiculous! |
Ah the old "don't get worked up" reposte. It's been a while. Perfectly calm old chap. I just think you're on the wrong track so forgive me if I explained why.
No issues at all on accountability. There needs to be a full and frank review once things settle down.
The Monk thing interests me and there's a fair amount of revisionism going on, or at least rehashing of arguments made when he was appointed which ignore the 2014/15 season entirely. I wasn't in favour of his appointment personally but, for a long while, it worked. Then it didn't and he failed spectacularly to turn it around. So in some senses it was a success, and in others it wasn't. Pays your money, takes your choice. I don't know enough about Frankie to know if he's the best man for the job but his pedigree is first class and he's probably the type of experienced head who we need at this time. Long term? Doubtful, he is 60 after all, but we'll see. | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:38 - Jan 26 with 1661 views | costalotta |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:33 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
Ah the old "don't get worked up" reposte. It's been a while. Perfectly calm old chap. I just think you're on the wrong track so forgive me if I explained why.
No issues at all on accountability. There needs to be a full and frank review once things settle down.
The Monk thing interests me and there's a fair amount of revisionism going on, or at least rehashing of arguments made when he was appointed which ignore the 2014/15 season entirely. I wasn't in favour of his appointment personally but, for a long while, it worked. Then it didn't and he failed spectacularly to turn it around. So in some senses it was a success, and in others it wasn't. Pays your money, takes your choice. I don't know enough about Frankie to know if he's the best man for the job but his pedigree is first class and he's probably the type of experienced head who we need at this time. Long term? Doubtful, he is 60 after all, but we'll see. |
Uxbridge,
You brought Monk into the discussion not me fella.
Everything else we seem to agree.
The Calm down statement i made was in no way meant to offend or wind you up, or to try and get a reaction. It was simply a response to your good self jumping onto the word "blame' which i think was brought into the discussion by Phil S? | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:39 - Jan 26 with 1660 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:31 - Jan 26 by costalotta |
So it was the manager that was responsible for recruitment?
I thought it was the Board and in particular Huw? |
Depends if you believe rumours or comments made previously on here from the likes of Phil.
Recruitment works pretty simply. Manager says he wants someone for a particular position. Recruitment department come up with options. Everyone convenes to look at options, and agrees targets. Club, largely through HJ, negotiate deals. There's no way we make signings to first team players without the agreement of the first team manager.
Now I know someone's going to bring up Emnes and Ngog right about now, and while I don't doubt they were never on Laudrup's personal list, he would have had to give the nod for them to join. It'd be a spectacular waste of money otherwise, and people can't argue the board are tight on one hand and then argue they chucked a couple of million away on a couple of players the manager was never, ever going to play even in a crisis. | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:42 - Jan 26 with 1651 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:38 - Jan 26 by costalotta |
Uxbridge,
You brought Monk into the discussion not me fella.
Everything else we seem to agree.
The Calm down statement i made was in no way meant to offend or wind you up, or to try and get a reaction. It was simply a response to your good self jumping onto the word "blame' which i think was brought into the discussion by Phil S? |
Er .. you were replying to Phil's comment on blaming Monk. So, er, yeah you did.
And you were on a bit of a windup, and that's fine. Not a problem. It just tickles me when people tell others to calm down in an attempt to make themselves look the calm, rational ones. Call it a personal favourite of mine.
Anyway, I agree that a review at the end of the season is very much called for. Short term measures can be introduced now but you can't invoke root and branch change in a January window. Not that a total overhaul is necessarily needed, but lessons to be learned of course. | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:42 - Jan 26 with 1635 views | monmouth |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:27 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
Thing is not many were complaining at the move in the summer. On paper it looked a wise move to tie down a relatively hot property as a manager. A salutary lesson on how quickly things can change I guess. Anyway, as I understand it, there were clauses in place for termination.
But yes, that's one of the things that needs looking at. The big one for me though is recruitment ... we signed badly this summer, Ayew aside ... and even he's a bit of a square peg. |
Aye, this is why (even though I can't help myself too often for comfort) I don't like to finger point with hindsight. the signings were also welcomed by most. They are paid to make decisions. All you can ask is that they make them, take accountability for them and identify mistakes so they don't do it again. More heat being generated than light at the moment which is why I think the entire focus of everyone should be on survival.
When I read this statement I'd hoped it would unify, not set off more conspiracy theories. Oh well, humans eh? Bad design. Especially if the wires aren't connected up. | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:43 - Jan 26 with 1629 views | costalotta |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:33 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
Ah the old "don't get worked up" reposte. It's been a while. Perfectly calm old chap. I just think you're on the wrong track so forgive me if I explained why.
No issues at all on accountability. There needs to be a full and frank review once things settle down.
The Monk thing interests me and there's a fair amount of revisionism going on, or at least rehashing of arguments made when he was appointed which ignore the 2014/15 season entirely. I wasn't in favour of his appointment personally but, for a long while, it worked. Then it didn't and he failed spectacularly to turn it around. So in some senses it was a success, and in others it wasn't. Pays your money, takes your choice. I don't know enough about Frankie to know if he's the best man for the job but his pedigree is first class and he's probably the type of experienced head who we need at this time. Long term? Doubtful, he is 60 after all, but we'll see. |
Regarding The Padre.
Compared to Monk, clearly this is a much better place to start from given our club and where we play our football. Long term, no. But then tell me who has been?
Now. The Padre will add to what we have in a footballing sense. Much like Sousa, Brodge, Even Laudrup. He brings to the table vast experience, know how, tactical nouse (all italian managers have this) and an ability to improve teams. So, what i would say is, by the time he leaves us/moves on, we will have another footballing feather in our cap. Moe than the Monk legacy. | | | |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:44 - Jan 26 with 1627 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:28 - Jan 26 by Dr_Winston |
Particularly if, in the chairman's own words, we had stood still for the six months prior to awarding it. |
It's a fair point. Could you imagine the comments if we had got rid of Monk in the summer though? | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:45 - Jan 26 with 1625 views | costalotta |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:42 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
Er .. you were replying to Phil's comment on blaming Monk. So, er, yeah you did.
And you were on a bit of a windup, and that's fine. Not a problem. It just tickles me when people tell others to calm down in an attempt to make themselves look the calm, rational ones. Call it a personal favourite of mine.
Anyway, I agree that a review at the end of the season is very much called for. Short term measures can be introduced now but you can't invoke root and branch change in a January window. Not that a total overhaul is necessarily needed, but lessons to be learned of course. |
Er no. I was making light of it! | | | |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:50 - Jan 26 with 1611 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:42 - Jan 26 by monmouth |
Aye, this is why (even though I can't help myself too often for comfort) I don't like to finger point with hindsight. the signings were also welcomed by most. They are paid to make decisions. All you can ask is that they make them, take accountability for them and identify mistakes so they don't do it again. More heat being generated than light at the moment which is why I think the entire focus of everyone should be on survival.
When I read this statement I'd hoped it would unify, not set off more conspiracy theories. Oh well, humans eh? Bad design. Especially if the wires aren't connected up. |
You and me both old chap. Lesson for me is that no matter what you write, some people will twist it to fit their agenda. Such is life. You'd think I'd have known that by now.
Think your first para is one of the best things I've seen written on here in yonks. Agree with every word. | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 11:13 - Jan 26 with 1566 views | costalotta |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:50 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
You and me both old chap. Lesson for me is that no matter what you write, some people will twist it to fit their agenda. Such is life. You'd think I'd have known that by now.
Think your first para is one of the best things I've seen written on here in yonks. Agree with every word. |
"You and me both old chap. Lesson for me is that no matter what you write, some people will twist it to fit their agenda. Such is life. You'd think I'd have known that by now. "
Which is exactly what you did with my post/response to Phil S with respect to the word blame. You jumped on it. Its ok, this is a public forum and its difficult to interpret sometimes without looking at the person you're communicating with. I forgive you, hahaha.
Read it again and note reference to forgetting things for a moment and that an inquiry can begin in the summer.
No hard feelings. | | | |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 11:23 - Jan 26 with 1542 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 11:13 - Jan 26 by costalotta |
"You and me both old chap. Lesson for me is that no matter what you write, some people will twist it to fit their agenda. Such is life. You'd think I'd have known that by now. "
Which is exactly what you did with my post/response to Phil S with respect to the word blame. You jumped on it. Its ok, this is a public forum and its difficult to interpret sometimes without looking at the person you're communicating with. I forgive you, hahaha.
Read it again and note reference to forgetting things for a moment and that an inquiry can begin in the summer.
No hard feelings. |
Someone's twisting words, I agree.
And of course no hard feelings. Why would there be? | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 11:43 - Jan 26 with 1525 views | Dr_Winston |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:44 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
It's a fair point. Could you imagine the comments if we had got rid of Monk in the summer though? |
I wouldn't have advocated sacking him at the time, although you'd think we'd have learned the downside of prematurely rushing to tie managers down for longer periods after Laudrup. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 11:52 - Jan 26 with 1511 views | whiterock |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:27 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
Thing is not many were complaining at the move in the summer. On paper it looked a wise move to tie down a relatively hot property as a manager. A salutary lesson on how quickly things can change I guess. Anyway, as I understand it, there were clauses in place for termination.
But yes, that's one of the things that needs looking at. The big one for me though is recruitment ... we signed badly this summer, Ayew aside ... and even he's a bit of a square peg. |
Paid 12 months wages, not to be sneezed at but I doubt anyone would have got away with less [Post edited 26 Jan 2016 12:05]
|  | | |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 11:56 - Jan 26 with 1506 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 11:43 - Jan 26 by Dr_Winston |
I wouldn't have advocated sacking him at the time, although you'd think we'd have learned the downside of prematurely rushing to tie managers down for longer periods after Laudrup. |
Some you win, some you lose. Tying BRodge down netted us £5m. We lost on Michu against all odds, and more than doubled up on Shelvey. Funny old world at times.
Think one lesson has to be the makeup of the coaching staff. Pep aside it looked weak at the time. Backing your manager is one thing but standards need to be retained. Ironic really given the accusations that Monk was a Yes man, the evidence seems to lead in a very different direction. | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 12:38 - Jan 26 with 1447 views | costalotta |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 11:23 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
Someone's twisting words, I agree.
And of course no hard feelings. Why would there be? |
Over the years I've noted that sometimes on here some posters take offence too easily and get into slanging matches rather than debate.
I have always found your posts to be interesting and enjoy reading them but only recently started posting with regularity myself.
Have a nice day! | | | |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 12:41 - Jan 26 with 1436 views | JackSwanTV |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 10:28 - Jan 26 by monmouth |
Serious question. Why are you so pathologically obsessed with that one item when it is probably one of the least important parts of the whole statement. Don't you agree with the dilemma that has been set out; the horns of which we are impaled clearly upon?
Or are you saying the whole statement is rubbish and the Trust is the board's poodle because of that one item. Because if you are, then you need help.
Grow up. |
I'm 'obsessed' with that part of it because that is the part which IMO influences our decision on the rest of the statement. I think most of us read it and thought that £40 million over 3 and a half years NET is a fair investment into transfers and that nobody could argue with the club backing Monk if he spent £50 million.
If this whole part was rewording to:-
"Over the past FOUR and a half years the club have a net deficit on transfers of in excess of £24M when you factor in signing on fees and agent fees, and in the last 18 months alone (highlighting just how much we backed Garry Monk) we have spent £5M NET on these deal".
I don't think that fans would have responded in the same way to the rest of the statement if this was how this line went. Now the £24 million may be wrong (but it will be considerably lower than £40 million and over a longer period ie. considerably less spent per season) and the £5 million Net could well be wrong (but when you think Bony, Davies, Vorm, Chico, Hernandez etc.. left then I expect that it isn't going to be much more than £10 million).
This is why I think this line is so important because for me it is designed to 'blame' Monk and it is manipulating figures carefully and I don't think that this is the right thing to do.
Whether these figures were chosen by the Trust or were given to the Trust by HJ I don't know but what I am pretty sure of is that these figures do show the optimum timescale for net spend and make it look like Monk was backed (possibly more than he was) by not showing the net figure over his time.
I'm not a spoilt Newcastle fan. I don't want us to make marquee signings and waste money. I totally support our transfer policies and the Trust and I put this in that article, the general message from the trust is right IMO. Transfers do cost more than we think, we probably do have less money in the kitty than what fans think and we do have to keep being smart in the transfer market which has been the (not so) secret to our success.
But I do still have an issue with that one part, I don't think it is a coincidence and I can't really explain myself any more on that. | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 12:42 - Jan 26 with 1436 views | Dr_Winston |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 11:56 - Jan 26 by Uxbridge |
Some you win, some you lose. Tying BRodge down netted us £5m. We lost on Michu against all odds, and more than doubled up on Shelvey. Funny old world at times.
Think one lesson has to be the makeup of the coaching staff. Pep aside it looked weak at the time. Backing your manager is one thing but standards need to be retained. Ironic really given the accusations that Monk was a Yes man, the evidence seems to lead in a very different direction. |
We had got two solid seasons of sustained performance out of Brodge. Suspect both parties had an inkling that he'd not see the end of it too. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 13:33 - Jan 26 with 1391 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 12:42 - Jan 26 by Dr_Winston |
We had got two solid seasons of sustained performance out of Brodge. Suspect both parties had an inkling that he'd not see the end of it too. |
You could argue we were in the same boat with Monk. Not identical scenarios of course. | |
| |
| Swans Trust Statement - Part 2 on 14:21 - Jan 26 with 1342 views | tomdickharry |
The latest set of accounts are now history so lets hope that the board have learned the lesson that close attention to detail is essential in the running of what will be when we stay up a £150M company. The light at the end of the tunnel is that expenditure on Landore and Fairwood should be completed within the short term and the club will have these additional funds available to invest in the squad. If lessons are not learned then the next set of accounts will provide the answers. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.