| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall 13:39 - Nov 10 with 4116 views | swisscottage |
In response to Beale asking himself who played in Defense v both Millwall and Sheffield United with much more dominant defensive displays than recently.
It was the Dunne Balogun pairing.
Jimmy should be stating above Clarke Salter every day of the week. |  | | |  |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 14:27 - Nov 10 with 3987 views | toboboly |
Agree. It isn't fashionable but all this "a CB should be able to play out from the back" is bollox. First and foremost they need to defend. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 14:30 - Nov 10 with 3976 views | James_Paddocks |
Jimmy actually looks like he enjoys getting battered about and sticking his nut on everything.
Didn't think Mick was having him at first, but he's looking more and more like our best defender with every shambolic defensive set piece. |  | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 14:32 - Nov 10 with 3972 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 14:27 - Nov 10 by toboboly |
Agree. It isn't fashionable but all this "a CB should be able to play out from the back" is bollox. First and foremost they need to defend. |
Fine margins though ,if we defended corners / free kicks we would have tied maybe won another couple of games and the mood would be less gloomy.
The fact we are so bad at defending corners coupled with our inability to score from ours is really kicking us in the balls right now
Like I posted on the England squad thread you need goals to cover up defensive / keeper mistakes and we are not getting anywhere close right now. |  | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 14:42 - Nov 10 with 3963 views | Rangersw12 |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 14:30 - Nov 10 by James_Paddocks |
Jimmy actually looks like he enjoys getting battered about and sticking his nut on everything.
Didn't think Mick was having him at first, but he's looking more and more like our best defender with every shambolic defensive set piece. |
He should certainly start against against physical sides but let's not kid ourselves he's the saviour off the top of my head cost us points against Blackpool & Luton
Dickie should be starting every game avaliable and the other 3 fight it out between them | | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 14:42 - Nov 10 with 3960 views | Malintabuk |
I would have Dunne in as long as he is fit.
Championship football is pretty basic.... forwards try and get it into the box for a big lump.... and defenders try and stop the big lump getting it... so I want my CH to be a big lump as well | | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 14:45 - Nov 10 with 3948 views | Loyalitat |
Totally agree. Mick Beale's insincerity in pretending to not being able to recall who played alongside Balogun in those games clearly shows who he ideally wants as his first-choice. Jake Clarke Salter is a good signing, but has errors in his game just like our other centre-halves. For mine, his performances overall haven't warranted his immediate recall into the first-team whenever he's available for selection. | | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 15:21 - Nov 10 with 3870 views | HAYESBOY |
To be fair, Jimmy was playing before getting injured. |  |
| Smells like a trout farm in here |
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| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 15:26 - Nov 10 with 3852 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 14:27 - Nov 10 by toboboly |
Agree. It isn't fashionable but all this "a CB should be able to play out from the back" is bollox. First and foremost they need to defend. |
Nope, they need to do both. It's not an 'either/or' or 'nice to have' - it's both, and both are as important as the other in a successful side in today's game. |  |
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| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 16:00 - Nov 10 with 3792 views | traininvain |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 15:21 - Nov 10 by HAYESBOY |
To be fair, Jimmy was playing before getting injured. |
And mixed results. Dunne was brilliant vs Sheff Utd but poor vs Luton. He also killed our momentum in the last 10 mins on Tuesday by giving away a needless foul followed by a long pass that went out of play as they often do with him.
I’d probably start him vs Coventry but let’s not pretend he’s the answer to all our problems. [Post edited 10 Nov 2022 16:03]
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| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 16:38 - Nov 10 with 3712 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 16:00 - Nov 10 by traininvain |
And mixed results. Dunne was brilliant vs Sheff Utd but poor vs Luton. He also killed our momentum in the last 10 mins on Tuesday by giving away a needless foul followed by a long pass that went out of play as they often do with him.
I’d probably start him vs Coventry but let’s not pretend he’s the answer to all our problems. [Post edited 10 Nov 2022 16:03]
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Dunne did those things you remembered, similar to Chair over-indulging, because they both stand up and care and put the team's performance before themselves,
I bet you did'nt notice Clarke Salter running back to commit a 'needless' foul or stepping forward in the 92nd minute to unfortunately over-hit a diagonal to Chair...that's because he would have sat nice and comfortable in his 'space' and played a 'over to you claude' 10 yard pass to Dunne, even tho he was in more space himself,
I went to Luton and don't recall Dunne being poor, do recall him bravely clattering into Dieng to stop the 2nd goal, also recall Balogun taking a knock and just knowing he would'nt be running it off as I have seen the likes of Chair and Willock doing of late,
Killed our momentum....needless foul....long passes often going out of play...
Why would you bother putting yourself on the line like Dunne and Chair do for our clubs fans when you'd be appreciated more by some if you just do a Balogun or Clarke Salter and play it safe or hit the medical room as soon as you feel a twing and still pick up your wages regardless. | | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 16:50 - Nov 10 with 3681 views | traininvain |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 16:38 - Nov 10 by ParkRoyalR |
Dunne did those things you remembered, similar to Chair over-indulging, because they both stand up and care and put the team's performance before themselves,
I bet you did'nt notice Clarke Salter running back to commit a 'needless' foul or stepping forward in the 92nd minute to unfortunately over-hit a diagonal to Chair...that's because he would have sat nice and comfortable in his 'space' and played a 'over to you claude' 10 yard pass to Dunne, even tho he was in more space himself,
I went to Luton and don't recall Dunne being poor, do recall him bravely clattering into Dieng to stop the 2nd goal, also recall Balogun taking a knock and just knowing he would'nt be running it off as I have seen the likes of Chair and Willock doing of late,
Killed our momentum....needless foul....long passes often going out of play...
Why would you bother putting yourself on the line like Dunne and Chair do for our clubs fans when you'd be appreciated more by some if you just do a Balogun or Clarke Salter and play it safe or hit the medical room as soon as you feel a twing and still pick up your wages regardless. |
Fair enough I agree that Dunne plays with a lot of heart but sometimes he needs to engage his brain a bit more like on Tuesday when he gave away that silly free kick and followed it up with an attempted 50 yard cross field pass.
It gave Huddersfield two opportunities in the last 10 minutes to kill time. I’d rather see a short pass to one of our players who are better on the ball so JCS would be right in making that decision.
I’m not saying Dunne’s an awful player but I don’t think he’s as good as some on here would have you believe. Like I say, I’d start him on Saturday probably next to Balogun. | | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 17:07 - Nov 10 with 3647 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 16:50 - Nov 10 by traininvain |
Fair enough I agree that Dunne plays with a lot of heart but sometimes he needs to engage his brain a bit more like on Tuesday when he gave away that silly free kick and followed it up with an attempted 50 yard cross field pass.
It gave Huddersfield two opportunities in the last 10 minutes to kill time. I’d rather see a short pass to one of our players who are better on the ball so JCS would be right in making that decision.
I’m not saying Dunne’s an awful player but I don’t think he’s as good as some on here would have you believe. Like I say, I’d start him on Saturday probably next to Balogun. |
Fairplay, but my frustration is if JCS is as good on the ball as we are led to believe, why is he not taking it on, when in a better position to Dunne, but simply squares it to Dunne, this is where I see 'courage' in a player, someone prepared to put himself at risk for the team, and I see it in Dunne but am yet to see it in half a dozen games with JCS,
I too was frustrated when Dunne over-hit that pass, as he no doubt was, and my memory of the foul was I think he was trying to keep the ball in play and game-moving and messed up,
But both of the above are laudable, as was Chair's constant attacking, as they are doing what they think is best (rightly or wrongly) for the team, these are the players we want and deserve our unqualified support, not those playing a 10 yards sideways pass,
I actually think Dunne is a better footballer than most of our fans give him credit for, possibly down to his ungainly running style / gait, but what very few can disagree with is he brings an intensity and desire to win that is infectious and sets standards for others, something really missing in our other Centre Halves play versus Huddersfield and Birmingham City. | | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 17:28 - Nov 10 with 3599 views | traininvain |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 17:07 - Nov 10 by ParkRoyalR |
Fairplay, but my frustration is if JCS is as good on the ball as we are led to believe, why is he not taking it on, when in a better position to Dunne, but simply squares it to Dunne, this is where I see 'courage' in a player, someone prepared to put himself at risk for the team, and I see it in Dunne but am yet to see it in half a dozen games with JCS,
I too was frustrated when Dunne over-hit that pass, as he no doubt was, and my memory of the foul was I think he was trying to keep the ball in play and game-moving and messed up,
But both of the above are laudable, as was Chair's constant attacking, as they are doing what they think is best (rightly or wrongly) for the team, these are the players we want and deserve our unqualified support, not those playing a 10 yards sideways pass,
I actually think Dunne is a better footballer than most of our fans give him credit for, possibly down to his ungainly running style / gait, but what very few can disagree with is he brings an intensity and desire to win that is infectious and sets standards for others, something really missing in our other Centre Halves play versus Huddersfield and Birmingham City. |
Agree I’d like to see more from JCS but there’s a thin line between courage and brainless.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the last point. I think Dunne’s rated very highly on here and any attempt of constructive criticism is met with fierce resistance as demonstrated by this thread! | | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 17:42 - Nov 10 with 3565 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 17:28 - Nov 10 by traininvain |
Agree I’d like to see more from JCS but there’s a thin line between courage and brainless.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the last point. I think Dunne’s rated very highly on here and any attempt of constructive criticism is met with fierce resistance as demonstrated by this thread! |
Agree fully on your first point and belatedly on your 2nd point as guilty as charged! | | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 01:06 - Nov 12 with 3180 views | bob566 |
Watched Gary Neville soccer school or whatever it is called. Had scholes as the guest. Discussed the vidic and Ferdinand partnership. Both agreed that Rio was a baller but give them vidic anyday. He'd do the ugly stuff v stoke etc getting cuts n bruises | | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 07:52 - Nov 12 with 3096 views | Hunterhoop |
The key point is that in a good centre half partnership the two centre halves must play different roles.
One needs to go hard to the ball to win the “first ball” into the back line. At our level this is often a header but it could be getting a foot in as it’s played to feet. You need to be tight the attacker.
The other centre half, usually the better ball player and the always the faster one, covers in behind in case the first ball is lost. He plays with the ball/game in front of them more and needs the pace to not be beaten as the last man.
We’re not taking about two centre halves playing 10 yards apart (in distance up the field) at all times, of course not, it’s about instinctive movement and position. A goal kick is taken: one should automatically “go to” and the other automatically drop.
The best centre half partnerships have centre halves who naturally suit each role.
Our 4 centre halves are all good in their own right, but only one naturally prefers playing the “go-to” attack the ball role, and that is Jimmy Dunne. JCS, Balogun, Dickie all want to keep the ball in front of them and sweep around.
Now personally I don’t think Dickie has the pace for that and is better stepping out but he’s been dropping off a lot the past 12 months.
Anyway, based on the above, Dunne should play when fit, with AN Other. His team mates know what he’s going to do so makes it easier for them to read the game and the team function as a team. This also means we win the ball earlier (the first ball forward) more which stops attacks at origin. The microcosm of this is set pieces and the first clearance.
Now, good defenders should be able to play both roles. Our other 3 can. But when you have two alongside each other, there is still that hesitation about going to, because it’s a disaster if both do it. So until those partnerships that exclude Dunne work out who is fulfilling which roles the majority of times, I would start Dunne. |  | | |
| Note to Beale - Jimmy Dunne played v both Sheffield and Millwall on 08:16 - Nov 12 with 3067 views | dmm |
Very interesting, Hunterhoop. What's surprising to me is that earlier in the season we were doing well defensively, particularly when defending set pieces. What's happened over the past month to change that?
A few teams seem to have worked out ways to play against us - eg Luton, Brum and WBA - but when defending set pieces, what had been working should surely have continued. |  | | |
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