| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? 14:36 - May 8 with 2553 views | SFC_Referee |
Recently on a few refereeing group chats that I’m on, I’ve seen an increased number of refs just always seem to give what the LOTG state, irrelevant of what those at the top or what Law 18 (aka common sense) suggests for them to do.
What I mean by this is that for certain situations that I feel as if anyone who knows and gets the game like many of the people on here, know what’s best to give rather than what the LOTG state. For example, here’s 5 situations where I’d be interested to see what most of you lot would give if you were refereeing in these situations…
1= Getting an U11 to be subbed for an accidental trip which was a DOGSO (aka red card offences), rather than sending them off.
2= Giving a soft free kick or two to a team that’s loosing a game like 8-0 to help manage the game better and reduce any frustration they may have with you.
3= Not giving an indirect free kick exactly after 6 seconds after the keepers held onto the ball for that long.
4= Not cautioning subs for entering the field of play in celebration after their teammate scores a last minute winner.
5= Making an U13 apologise to a club linesman for dissent, rather than sin binning them.
As I’m sure that any of you guys that still do play, or have kids/friends playing will of had situational before where refs have kept to the exact wording of the LOTG, even though it’s not what the game expects. So what is it you make of them? |  |
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| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 17:44 - May 8 with 2408 views | GasGiant |
1) Yes. Don't let a red card be a badge of honour.
2) No. The losers will feel patronised, the winners angry, so it doesn't help control the teams
3) Not without a warning or two first. Giving it on 6 seconds dead with no warning is the sort of thing that arch berk Clive Thomas would have done.
4) Yes, caution them. Goal celebrations are parthetic intimidatory bits of gamesmanship. Do anything to break up the party.
5) Yes good idea first time. In rugby officials are addressed as "Sir". Wouldn't go amiss as a reminder that respect of officials is not negotiable. |  | | |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 17:56 - May 8 with 2391 views | SFC_Referee |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 17:44 - May 8 by GasGiant |
1) Yes. Don't let a red card be a badge of honour.
2) No. The losers will feel patronised, the winners angry, so it doesn't help control the teams
3) Not without a warning or two first. Giving it on 6 seconds dead with no warning is the sort of thing that arch berk Clive Thomas would have done.
4) Yes, caution them. Goal celebrations are parthetic intimidatory bits of gamesmanship. Do anything to break up the party.
5) Yes good idea first time. In rugby officials are addressed as "Sir". Wouldn't go amiss as a reminder that respect of officials is not negotiable. |
Fair enough then, as I personally find that for 2 the losers don’t give a toss and just usually start blaming you if you don’t, whacky the winners won’t get angry as they don’t give a toss because they’re winning by soo much. And for 4 well I’ve always liked the thrill and feelings when it goes your way etc…
But still it’s good to see that fans like yourself aren’t just expecting and wanting the LOTG non stop as some of the refs I’ve spoken to recently (especially American ones) really do worry me for how little they seem to understand the game or use law 18 | |
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| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 13:18 - May 10 with 2153 views | saint901 |
I've coached and ref'd kids football from U7 to U16.
The coaching team tried to instil a sense of discipline and togetherness in the teams we had (usually two teams at each age group, sometimes three) so we had a few rules:
1. If a player is rude, disrespectful or abusive to another player - ours or the opposition - he's off the pitch and out of the game, regardless of whether he was the best player we had or not.
2. Messing about in training would lead to a lap of the pitch and when that became a badge of honour, three laps and training finished for the day.
3. we did not have a "first" team. We had teams of roughly equal ability - allowing for the fact that kids can be brilliant ine week and hopeless the next.
When I was a ref at this level - and indeed on Sunday morning village level - I had a few things I would do.
1. We played on a Sunday morning (kids and adults) and I would visit the dressing rooms pre match and request that swearing - if needed at all - should be as quiet as possible. Breaches of that on the pitch I could do little about but I'd have a quiet word. Didn't always work though.
2. At kids level, if there was a cynical trip and/or denial of goal, I'd ask the coach to take the kid off and replace him.
3. I would be more "generous" to a team getting a pasting because at kids level it's all about having some fun and getting hammered is no fun.
4. I did a few times ask a coach to "control" the parents who were often worse at swearing and shouting than the kids. On two occasions - after a warning - I stopped games early because of interference from parents.
without giving the kids some encouragement to get out and chose football over a dozen other things they could do, we will lose them. | | | |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 13:35 - May 10 with 2131 views | SaintNick |
1= Getting an U11 to be subbed for an accidental trip which was a DOGSO (aka red card offences), rather than sending them off. - I would suggest that this is the sensible thing to do, it was accidental award the penalty or free kick and then tell the manager he is either subbed or sent off.
2= Giving a soft free kick or two to a team that’s loosing a game like 8-0 to help manage the game better and reduce any frustration they may have with you. - As long as it's not to blatant then manage the game and the situation, unless they are arrogant and mouthy then ref them by the book.
3= Not giving an indirect free kick exactly after 6 seconds after the keepers held onto the ball for that long. There has to be some leeway, in the professional game when was the last time a keeper was blown up for holding the ball more than 6 seconds.
4= Not cautioning subs for entering the field of play in celebration after their teammate scores a last minute winner.- Football is passionate, if we booked people for every little indiscretion then a 4-3 game like Monday night could see yellow cards well into double figures
5= Making an U13 apologise to a club linesman for dissent, rather than sin binning them. This is a good idea, offer them the option, tell them that they can apologise and stay on or be sin binned, if they apologise sarcastically sent them off for ungentlemanly conduct |  |
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| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 17:39 - May 10 with 2031 views | SFC_Referee |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 13:35 - May 10 by SaintNick |
1= Getting an U11 to be subbed for an accidental trip which was a DOGSO (aka red card offences), rather than sending them off. - I would suggest that this is the sensible thing to do, it was accidental award the penalty or free kick and then tell the manager he is either subbed or sent off.
2= Giving a soft free kick or two to a team that’s loosing a game like 8-0 to help manage the game better and reduce any frustration they may have with you. - As long as it's not to blatant then manage the game and the situation, unless they are arrogant and mouthy then ref them by the book.
3= Not giving an indirect free kick exactly after 6 seconds after the keepers held onto the ball for that long. There has to be some leeway, in the professional game when was the last time a keeper was blown up for holding the ball more than 6 seconds.
4= Not cautioning subs for entering the field of play in celebration after their teammate scores a last minute winner.- Football is passionate, if we booked people for every little indiscretion then a 4-3 game like Monday night could see yellow cards well into double figures
5= Making an U13 apologise to a club linesman for dissent, rather than sin binning them. This is a good idea, offer them the option, tell them that they can apologise and stay on or be sin binned, if they apologise sarcastically sent them off for ungentlemanly conduct |
Nah ok well it’s good to see that many fans on here do prefer the common sense side to the LOTG, and that what a few refs do is what’s better for the game.
As unfortunately like I said before many refs (not soo surprisingly many are American though!) seem to have to go by the book non stop, and won’t ever use any common sense or give what that game needs rather than what the LOTG sate.
As I’ve always been taught by many of the top refs I’ve met and spoken with, that sometimes it’s best to give what’s expected/what’s best for the game, rather than what the LOTG state, as the best refs are the ones that know when to make the slight edit/leeway to the LOTG.
But still I really do hope that more refs keep to this otherwise our current average prem officials will all be like Collina for how great they’ll be if some of the new refs I’ve seen recently don’t change! | |
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| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 19:08 - May 10 with 2002 views | kingolaf |
Going off at a slight tangent - why do refs keep letting physios on for players who are clearly cheating? Why do they let teams get away with being so slow to be ready for a restart after scoring.
They call it game management these days. I call it blatant cheating and it’s making me dislike the sport more and more. [Post edited 10 May 2023 19:09]
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| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 19:40 - May 10 with 1969 views | 1885_SFC |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 19:08 - May 10 by kingolaf |
Going off at a slight tangent - why do refs keep letting physios on for players who are clearly cheating? Why do they let teams get away with being so slow to be ready for a restart after scoring.
They call it game management these days. I call it blatant cheating and it’s making me dislike the sport more and more. [Post edited 10 May 2023 19:09]
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Newcastle are the masters at this. Watch closely the next time they're playing and their lead is a very slender one. At some point, each and every player will go down feigning an injury (cheating coonts) because they know the ref will never add on anywhere near the correct time at the end. At least FIFA got it right in the last WC by adding several minutes to every game for time wasted. The English game however is both inept & to a certain degree corrupt on this issue. |  |
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| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 21:00 - May 10 with 1945 views | sledger |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 19:08 - May 10 by kingolaf |
Going off at a slight tangent - why do refs keep letting physios on for players who are clearly cheating? Why do they let teams get away with being so slow to be ready for a restart after scoring.
They call it game management these days. I call it blatant cheating and it’s making me dislike the sport more and more. [Post edited 10 May 2023 19:09]
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im with you on this,its easily sorted just allow the trainer on to treat the player let the game continue soon sort the cheating out,there i sorted it | | | |
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| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 09:34 - May 11 with 1871 views | saint901 |
There's a few things that can be done to reduce the false injury scenario. And the FA/PL/PGMOL will do none of them.
1. If the trainer comes on, then the player is off the pitch for say 5 minutes after the trainer has left him. The player can stand by the 4th official who can start a countdown clock.
2. If a player is injured but can walk off the pitch for treatment he can escape the 5 minute exclusion.
3. If the injured player is in a position on the pitch, away from the play, the trainer can come on and start his treatment. Same 5 minute exclusion though. If the ball goes near the player being treated, stop the game. 4th official to say if the trainer can go on.
4. Timing generally should be out of the refs hands. Stop the clock when the trainer comes on and start it when the ref says play on.
5. Review the game after the match. For obvious false injuries used to slow or break up a game = 1 demerit point to the team. 100 demerit points in a season = 1 league point deduction.
6. If the team can supply an independent doctors report that the injury was real, consider not putting a demerit point on.
7. Every time the trainer comes on to the pitch, add two minutes minimum, more if he's there longer.
I absolutely agree that what professional managers call game management is cheating.
They are cheating the fans and the neutrals as well as their opponents.
And whilst trying not to show any bias, some teams/managers are very good at this - Newcastle, Villa, Arsenal to name a few - others are poor (did we not have Bazunu booked for time wasting this year?)
Refs know this because many are fans, but it seems that the powers are happy to ignore it. | | | |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 14:15 - May 11 with 1804 views | SFC_Referee |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 19:08 - May 10 by kingolaf |
Going off at a slight tangent - why do refs keep letting physios on for players who are clearly cheating? Why do they let teams get away with being so slow to be ready for a restart after scoring.
They call it game management these days. I call it blatant cheating and it’s making me dislike the sport more and more. [Post edited 10 May 2023 19:09]
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Because you have to, as when a players supposedly injured, you have to call on the physio’s if the player requests it or you think he needs one. As if an injuries “that bad” then they need to do it on the pitch and can only take them off when they’ve done certain things and all that waffle etc…
As the issue refs get is that you can’t always tell when it’s legitimate or not.
As in my view they need to introduce a law where if play is halted for an injury, then the player must sit out for at least however long they were down for, unless they’re subbed. As then if a players injured they can get all the treatment they require when on the byline, and if they’re just time wasting then they get punished for it by sitting out for a while | |
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| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 14:20 - May 11 with 1803 views | SFC_Referee |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 09:34 - May 11 by saint901 |
There's a few things that can be done to reduce the false injury scenario. And the FA/PL/PGMOL will do none of them.
1. If the trainer comes on, then the player is off the pitch for say 5 minutes after the trainer has left him. The player can stand by the 4th official who can start a countdown clock.
2. If a player is injured but can walk off the pitch for treatment he can escape the 5 minute exclusion.
3. If the injured player is in a position on the pitch, away from the play, the trainer can come on and start his treatment. Same 5 minute exclusion though. If the ball goes near the player being treated, stop the game. 4th official to say if the trainer can go on.
4. Timing generally should be out of the refs hands. Stop the clock when the trainer comes on and start it when the ref says play on.
5. Review the game after the match. For obvious false injuries used to slow or break up a game = 1 demerit point to the team. 100 demerit points in a season = 1 league point deduction.
6. If the team can supply an independent doctors report that the injury was real, consider not putting a demerit point on.
7. Every time the trainer comes on to the pitch, add two minutes minimum, more if he's there longer.
I absolutely agree that what professional managers call game management is cheating.
They are cheating the fans and the neutrals as well as their opponents.
And whilst trying not to show any bias, some teams/managers are very good at this - Newcastle, Villa, Arsenal to name a few - others are poor (did we not have Bazunu booked for time wasting this year?)
Refs know this because many are fans, but it seems that the powers are happy to ignore it. |
In all fairness I don’t think 3 would exactly work, and for 2 they’d still go down to stop the game it’s just would then get up when the refs blown. For 5 and 6 you get an issue for in the fact that you can’t always tell, and like why you don’t see refs always give cautionings for simulation, as sometimes you just can’t tell for certain and you’d just get more controversy around it, and doctors can’t tell alway when someone’s had a tight leg, cramp, felt dizzy etc, so that wouldn’t really work.
But for your 7th and 1st point I do think they’d work, as something does need to be done about all this time wasting | |
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| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 16:58 - May 11 with 1781 views | sledger |
| What do the typical footballing fans make of this? on 21:00 - May 10 by sledger |
im with you on this,its easily sorted just allow the trainer on to treat the player let the game continue soon sort the cheating out,there i sorted it |
not disagreeing with anybody,but why make it complicated,just allow the trainer on and let play continue,the cheating with this will stop as they would only penalise there own side. | | | |
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