| Bus stop in Hounslow 18:58 - Jan 11 with 23506 views | kingo |
The soppy TW ats seem to think it is something to be proud of. |  |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:08 - Jan 12 with 4137 views | NewBee |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 14:57 - Jan 12 by stowmarketrange |
How could we have been rivals in the 30’s when your team were in the 1st division for a part of that decade and we were 2 divisions below you?
Absolute rubbish that we were ever rivals until 1967 gave them an excuse to hate someone else apart from aldershot.
And for sky to parade this tosh yesterday is even worse.Get over yourselves. |
Which only goes to prove my point, which is that genuine local rivalries derive from proximity, not the geography of local government, or cyclical variations in playing success - see West Ham and Millwall, for instance, or moving further afield, Portsmouth and Southampton.
In fact the one exception I can think of is the relatively recent "M23 Derby" between Palace and Brighton. But I suspect that that will decline should they ever spend a prolonged period in separate divisions and Charlton revert to the same level as Palace. |  | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:08 - Jan 12 with 4134 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 14:37 - Jan 12 by NewBee |
You are mistaking "geography" for proximity.
The same mistake is made eg by some sad Arsenal fans who point out that when Spurs were formed, Tottenham wasn't even in London (like eg Brentford, it was classed as Middlesex), so they're not really London rivals etc.
By contrast, although Spurs fans love to taunt Arsenal for coming from Woolwich*, they all accept that the two are genuine North London rivals.
* - Apparently the club's true origins were in the more down-market Plumstead, but Woolwich had a greater cachet in those days. Which is a bit like Gus Mears forming Chelsea FC in 1905 after he had failed to persuade Fulham FC to move into the athletics stadium he had just bought. He toyed with the idea of calling the club eg "Stamford Bridge FC" or "Kensington FC", before settling on Chelsea, since it sounded more prestigious. Though as we all know, calling a turd a treasure doesn't make it any less of a turd. |
Arsenal and Spurs are currently in London and have been for many years. Brentford have never been in London and still won't be when they move to their new stadium.
I've noticed that after every match between our clubs, a swathe of Brentford fans infest QPR forums with tales of rivalry. This "rivalry" you crave is one-way and purely in the minds of Brentford supporters. Understand that no matter how hard you try, you can never stoke up a rivalry in our minds. We're just not interested. |  | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:12 - Jan 12 with 4119 views | gazza1 |
Rangers and Brentford have been rivals for 50 plus years, probably longer, when we were both scraping in the old 3rd division. Plus there was that takeover matter when Brentford were in big trouble. Our rivalries died somewhat when we got promoted to Division 2 and then Division 1. Perhaps, I dont know, but perhaps Fulham became their biggest enemies when Fulham went through a very rough time and got relegation to Division 3 (and 4??). Just like Chelsea became Rangers arch rivals when we started playing each other in the First Division.
Now we are battling Brentford again, they appear to want us as their enemies. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:13 - Jan 12 with 4118 views | kingo |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 14:44 - Jan 12 by NewBee |
You miss my point.
It was Dunnett, not "Brentford FC" or "Brentford fans", who was behind this proposal, with Gregory happy to go along since he would get a bigger stadium, while keeping his own club in existence.
Which is why it is silly imo for fans of either club to "hate" the other for what (nearly) happened.
God knows, we've got plenty of other reasons...  |
I don't miss your point at all. As I said, I used to go to Brenford in the 70s and 80s and their was no rivalry even though this was just aftef the so called take over. The rivalry has been orchestrated by Peter Gilham and it culminated in BFC fans singing about Ray Jones. Yes it was Dunham and your capatain at the time, who put forward the ground share to Jim Gregory and actively went to Loftus Road to speak to him. Not the hostile takeover by QPR, that new Brenford fans put forward. In fairness to the board at Brentford at the time, the fans had not come forward with any monies until the story broke. Brentford were hours away from being wound up.
With regard to your final point, I agree about the silly hatred, but it only comes one way and didn't happen in the 70s and 80s. But Gilhams personal and warped hatred has been taken on by many at Brentford and as I said culminated in petty issues on the tickets and programme by BFC and hit a new low with the Ray Jones chants by some of your fans. | |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
| |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:20 - Jan 12 with 4086 views | gazza1 |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:13 - Jan 12 by kingo |
I don't miss your point at all. As I said, I used to go to Brenford in the 70s and 80s and their was no rivalry even though this was just aftef the so called take over. The rivalry has been orchestrated by Peter Gilham and it culminated in BFC fans singing about Ray Jones. Yes it was Dunham and your capatain at the time, who put forward the ground share to Jim Gregory and actively went to Loftus Road to speak to him. Not the hostile takeover by QPR, that new Brenford fans put forward. In fairness to the board at Brentford at the time, the fans had not come forward with any monies until the story broke. Brentford were hours away from being wound up.
With regard to your final point, I agree about the silly hatred, but it only comes one way and didn't happen in the 70s and 80s. But Gilhams personal and warped hatred has been taken on by many at Brentford and as I said culminated in petty issues on the tickets and programme by BFC and hit a new low with the Ray Jones chants by some of your fans. |
There has always been rivalry between the clubs but as I posted earlier it died down massively when we became successful, maybe not by the Bees fans though. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:22 - Jan 12 with 4079 views | gazza1 |
And to answer your question Kingo......they were singing 'bus stop in Hounslow' becuase they were 3 - 0 up, suggesting we were being s beaten, pretty soundly, by a bus stop in Hounslow. Therby taking the piss!!! | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:24 - Jan 12 with 4078 views | kingo |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 14:28 - Jan 12 by distortR |
tbh mate, i thought it low of kingo to suggest that your post was condoning that behaviour. |
The original post was about Brentford singing that they were Just a Bus stop in Hounslow, that I though was a bit strange. However, as threads tend to do, it went on to the petty issues that BFC as a club had orchestrated agianst us and then on to Peter Gilham, as I said a man I have no time for but who has used his position to promote hate towrds my club. No the Ray Jones chant wasn't mentioned in the OP but it shows how far Gilham has poisioned them against QPR. I am sorry about aiming my annoyance at Cider but I had had a few and had been advised of the Ray Jones chants by someone in Roddys. | |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
| |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:24 - Jan 12 with 4077 views | NewBee |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:08 - Jan 12 by Benny_the_Ball |
Arsenal and Spurs are currently in London and have been for many years. Brentford have never been in London and still won't be when they move to their new stadium.
I've noticed that after every match between our clubs, a swathe of Brentford fans infest QPR forums with tales of rivalry. This "rivalry" you crave is one-way and purely in the minds of Brentford supporters. Understand that no matter how hard you try, you can never stoke up a rivalry in our minds. We're just not interested. |
When talking about rivals in football, we are really talking about local rivalries.
Which go all the way back to the days when supporters invariably used to grow up supporting the club nearest to where they lived and worked, walking, cycling or getting the bus/tram to watch them play.
Those most desperate to get their football fix in those pre-TV days sometimes even went along to games at their next nearest club (i.e. rivals) when their own club was playing away.
So unless one of out two clubs "does a Wimbledon" and moves elsewhere, then we will continue to be stuck with each other as local rivals, for better or for worse.
On which latter point, seeing as we're staying in Brentford even after they've demolished GP, any idea where QPR will end up after LR falls down? | | | |
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| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:25 - Jan 12 with 4073 views | daveB |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:08 - Jan 12 by NewBee |
Which only goes to prove my point, which is that genuine local rivalries derive from proximity, not the geography of local government, or cyclical variations in playing success - see West Ham and Millwall, for instance, or moving further afield, Portsmouth and Southampton.
In fact the one exception I can think of is the relatively recent "M23 Derby" between Palace and Brighton. But I suspect that that will decline should they ever spend a prolonged period in separate divisions and Charlton revert to the same level as Palace. |
we've always been local but I used to go to Brentford quite regularly with a mate who supporters them in the early 90's and he'd come to QPR games when they were away, never heard a single chant about QPR back then and when half time scores were read out if we were winning away (A rare event) you'd hear a cheer around the ground, was all quite friendly. Not quite sure why that changed but going again with my mate on a trip back from uni in the late 90's they hated us for some reason and it was non stop songs about QPR, i've found it all a bit odd and find it difficult to get involved in a rivalry with them, I've always liked them, less so since they started being daft about us. They have done well the last few years and have a very good side at the moment. |  | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:29 - Jan 12 with 4059 views | kingo |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:22 - Jan 12 by gazza1 |
And to answer your question Kingo......they were singing 'bus stop in Hounslow' becuase they were 3 - 0 up, suggesting we were being s beaten, pretty soundly, by a bus stop in Hounslow. Therby taking the piss!!! |
They were actually singing it before the game. | |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
| |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:30 - Jan 12 with 4052 views | NewBee |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:13 - Jan 12 by kingo |
I don't miss your point at all. As I said, I used to go to Brenford in the 70s and 80s and their was no rivalry even though this was just aftef the so called take over. The rivalry has been orchestrated by Peter Gilham and it culminated in BFC fans singing about Ray Jones. Yes it was Dunham and your capatain at the time, who put forward the ground share to Jim Gregory and actively went to Loftus Road to speak to him. Not the hostile takeover by QPR, that new Brenford fans put forward. In fairness to the board at Brentford at the time, the fans had not come forward with any monies until the story broke. Brentford were hours away from being wound up.
With regard to your final point, I agree about the silly hatred, but it only comes one way and didn't happen in the 70s and 80s. But Gilhams personal and warped hatred has been taken on by many at Brentford and as I said culminated in petty issues on the tickets and programme by BFC and hit a new low with the Ray Jones chants by some of your fans. |
I've been attending GP for years, and I have NEVER heard any Ray Jones chants, or even any mention of him.
I can see why even the thought of it is hugely offensive to QPR fans, and I can't definitively rule out a tiny minority of cretinous Bees fans using it to taunt QPR sometime or other (obviously I don't know them all), but it simply doesn't feature at Brentford games.
As I indicated earlier, I would bet good money that the majority of Bees fans have never even heard of the lad. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:31 - Jan 12 with 4048 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 13:22 - Jan 12 by NewBee |
After I first moved to London (early 80's), I ended up living in W5 and started going to GP. At that time, Bees "rivals" appeared to be Fulham.
But I got to know an old geezer who ran the local greengrocers, who had been a Bees fan since the 1930's (even earlier?).
He put me right on the club's history, namely QPR and Brentford were always the local rivals, with Fulham's rivals being Chelsea - they share the same Borough after all.
It's the same elsewhere in London, where (some) fans of (some) clubs claim new "rivals" as a means of hiding their true origins.
So for WHU and Chelsea fans, their rivals aren't Spurs, they're Millwall and Fulham respectively.
That's how it's always been, and how it should always be.
Though I'm not sure who Bees will adopt should QPR finally go bust under Mad Tony.
Hounslow Borough FC? |
....After I first moved to London (early 80's),.....
Come on New Bee, you can tell us,
Who's your first club, you know the one, the club you really support?
hopefully its not United or Arsenal like all the other New Bee's.......... | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:35 - Jan 12 with 4030 views | stowmarketrange |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:24 - Jan 12 by NewBee |
When talking about rivals in football, we are really talking about local rivalries.
Which go all the way back to the days when supporters invariably used to grow up supporting the club nearest to where they lived and worked, walking, cycling or getting the bus/tram to watch them play.
Those most desperate to get their football fix in those pre-TV days sometimes even went along to games at their next nearest club (i.e. rivals) when their own club was playing away.
So unless one of out two clubs "does a Wimbledon" and moves elsewhere, then we will continue to be stuck with each other as local rivals, for better or for worse.
On which latter point, seeing as we're staying in Brentford even after they've demolished GP, any idea where QPR will end up after LR falls down? |
The height of your club’s ambition seems to have a ground smaller than ours is now just so you can put in a few posh seats on the only big side.
I agree that you’re a better run club than us at the minute but remember these things go in cycles.You’ve done well in doubling your average crowds over the last 10 years,but where will you put all the new comers in a ground of that size? |  | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:56 - Jan 12 with 3966 views | terryb |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 14:57 - Jan 12 by stowmarketrange |
How could we have been rivals in the 30’s when your team were in the 1st division for a part of that decade and we were 2 divisions below you?
Absolute rubbish that we were ever rivals until 1967 gave them an excuse to hate someone else apart from aldershot.
And for sky to parade this tosh yesterday is even worse.Get over yourselves. |
That's not quite true stowmarket.
We were in the same division for most of the years post the second world war until 1967. When I was converted to Rangers in the late '60's (relegation in the 68/69 season after some flirting), I was given the order of Rangers rivals:-
1) Brentford
2) Watford
3) Millwall
4) Palace
I appreciate that this is no longer how Rangers fans see it, but it is a part of our history. C*****a, Fulham & Luton were not on our radar! [Post edited 12 Jan 2020 15:58]
| | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:57 - Jan 12 with 3962 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:00 - Jan 12 by NewBee |
Not "desparate" at all. I mean, I would still see the two clubs as "local rivals" even after we are in the PL. And you're not.
Beyond that, while a good old local rivalry adds wlecome spice to derby matches, imo there should be no room for "hatred" in football.
I reserve that eg for paedophiles and scumbags who mug little old ladies etc. |
"even after we are in the PL. And you're not."
Oh, you poor thing. |  |
| |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 16:05 - Jan 12 with 3939 views | stowmarketrange |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:56 - Jan 12 by terryb |
That's not quite true stowmarket.
We were in the same division for most of the years post the second world war until 1967. When I was converted to Rangers in the late '60's (relegation in the 68/69 season after some flirting), I was given the order of Rangers rivals:-
1) Brentford
2) Watford
3) Millwall
4) Palace
I appreciate that this is no longer how Rangers fans see it, but it is a part of our history. C*****a, Fulham & Luton were not on our radar! [Post edited 12 Jan 2020 15:58]
|
He was talking about the 30’s though Terry.I appreciate we may have played each other more after the war,but they were never part of my list of disliked clubs since I first started going in 1970. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 16:36 - Jan 12 with 3884 views | terryb |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 16:05 - Jan 12 by stowmarketrange |
He was talking about the 30’s though Terry.I appreciate we may have played each other more after the war,but they were never part of my list of disliked clubs since I first started going in 1970. |
I'm certain that applies to most Rangers fans Stowmarket, but you did say that they have never been seen as our rivals!
Personally, I've never rated them as such either as we had waved goodbye to them by the time I arrived on the scene! Watford & Palace are still high on my list though!
On a different theme, I hope your keeping a date in May free for the FA Vase final! Stow were the first team I played for in Suffolk when I moved here. They must be spending a lot more money on players than they did then! | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 16:39 - Jan 12 with 3880 views | NewBee |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:31 - Jan 12 by ParkRoyalR |
....After I first moved to London (early 80's),.....
Come on New Bee, you can tell us,
Who's your first club, you know the one, the club you really support?
hopefully its not United or Arsenal like all the other New Bee's.......... |
A club called Glentoran FC.
Ever heard of them? | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 16:52 - Jan 12 with 3846 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 16:39 - Jan 12 by NewBee |
A club called Glentoran FC.
Ever heard of them? |
Yep, so you'll be United or Liverpool then!
Surprised you did'nt head to Loftus Road in the early 80's to watch your townie and national captain play, the late / great Alan McDonald. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 16:55 - Jan 12 with 3838 views | stowmarketrange |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 16:36 - Jan 12 by terryb |
I'm certain that applies to most Rangers fans Stowmarket, but you did say that they have never been seen as our rivals!
Personally, I've never rated them as such either as we had waved goodbye to them by the time I arrived on the scene! Watford & Palace are still high on my list though!
On a different theme, I hope your keeping a date in May free for the FA Vase final! Stow were the first team I played for in Suffolk when I moved here. They must be spending a lot more money on players than they did then! |
I’m more of a Needham market fan than Stowmarket town.Mainly because Kevin Horlock did some coaching at my daughter’s school and we went to see him in his last season or two playing for them.
Plus Needham market is a better place for a few pints than Stowmarket. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 17:16 - Jan 12 with 3805 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:24 - Jan 12 by kingo |
The original post was about Brentford singing that they were Just a Bus stop in Hounslow, that I though was a bit strange. However, as threads tend to do, it went on to the petty issues that BFC as a club had orchestrated agianst us and then on to Peter Gilham, as I said a man I have no time for but who has used his position to promote hate towrds my club. No the Ray Jones chant wasn't mentioned in the OP but it shows how far Gilham has poisioned them against QPR. I am sorry about aiming my annoyance at Cider but I had had a few and had been advised of the Ray Jones chants by someone in Roddys. |
No offence taken at all. It's a fair point. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 17:19 - Jan 12 with 3797 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:35 - Jan 12 by stowmarketrange |
The height of your club’s ambition seems to have a ground smaller than ours is now just so you can put in a few posh seats on the only big side.
I agree that you’re a better run club than us at the minute but remember these things go in cycles.You’ve done well in doubling your average crowds over the last 10 years,but where will you put all the new comers in a ground of that size? |
14000 or so home seats. Even they would fill that in the Prem. Was a bit surprised it didn’t sell out yesterday though. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 17:22 - Jan 12 with 3789 views | NewBee |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 15:35 - Jan 12 by stowmarketrange |
The height of your club’s ambition seems to have a ground smaller than ours is now just so you can put in a few posh seats on the only big side.
I agree that you’re a better run club than us at the minute but remember these things go in cycles.You’ve done well in doubling your average crowds over the last 10 years,but where will you put all the new comers in a ground of that size? |
The height of our clubs/owners ambition is to get to the PL and stay there.
Quite clearly that was never an option while remaining at GP (lack of facilities and decrepitude as much as actual capacity).
There were only two alternatives. The first was move outside our traditional catchment eg to some soulless retail estate in Hayes, to take advantage of cheap land and allow for a large capacity. But even if our owner was prepared to countenance that (not in a million years), we would have struggled even to quarter-fill a 30k capacity, at least if we got relegated again (see eg Reading/Majewski).
Therefore he chose Option 2, which was to stay in the area, even if it meant paying top dollar for a site and accepting a reduced capacity.
Of course, a 17.5k capacity will put us at a significant disadvantage to almost all of the other PL clubs, but right now we are at a huge disadvantage to virtually all of the other Championship clubs revenue-wise anyways.
Yet by dint of sound leadership, organisation and management etc applied with a view to the medium to long term, we have consistently proven our ability to punch above our weight at this level, all the while staying within the Rules. It is to be hoped that those qualities will enable us to do the same in the Prem (see eg Brighton/Amex).
As for the capacity, it was due to be 20k, until the figures suggested that taking out some of that maximum capacity to increase the "premium" seating/facilities instead would actually produce a net revenue increase - not ideal, but there you go.
And this is at least partly mitigated by attracting London Irish RFC as tenants, plus designing some of the seating to be converted to "safe-standing" if/when the law is changed to permit that. Plus it will be easier to sell 17.5k tickets than 20k (obv), so maybe that will allay your concerns on that front?
As for the cyclical nature of football, before Benham, we were yo-yoing between Lge I and Lge 2. And such was the state of GP, the only way that was going to change was the very real prospect of a drop into non-League, from which we would possibly never have escaped.
Ten years later, we are an established Championship club, where we might struggle to avoid relegation in a bad year, whilst hoping for promotion in a good one.
Looking to the future, I imagine Benham's dream is somehow to get into the PL and hang on in there long enough eventually to become established at that level. If he did, then he would only be returning the club to its glory days in the 30's, when Bees were in the top flight, even finishing as London's top club one season!
Of course that is hugely ambitious and to any neutral observer must appear long odds-against. But it should not be overlooked that at he's already been hugely successful in another field, is completely committed to doing the same at BFC, and at 52, still has the time, the energy and the wealth to give it a crack.
I personally wouldn't bet against him. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 17:29 - Jan 12 with 3759 views | NewBee |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 16:52 - Jan 12 by ParkRoyalR |
Yep, so you'll be United or Liverpool then!
Surprised you did'nt head to Loftus Road in the early 80's to watch your townie and national captain play, the late / great Alan McDonald. |
Liverpool or Man U?  Do the rules of this forum permit swearing? 
But yeah, the first place I lived in London was actually by Olympia, so I did pop down to QPR to marvel at the mighty exploits of Big Mac on occasion.
Ian Stewart was another favourite.
Didn't turn me into a QPR fan though. | | | |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 17:53 - Jan 12 with 3710 views | PunteR |
| Bus stop in Hounslow on 17:29 - Jan 12 by NewBee |
Liverpool or Man U? Do the rules of this forum permit swearing?
But yeah, the first place I lived in London was actually by Olympia, so I did pop down to QPR to marvel at the mighty exploits of Big Mac on occasion.
Ian Stewart was another favourite.
Didn't turn me into a QPR fan though. |
Your loss. |  |
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