| FFP Headroom / P&S BS 14:20 - Aug 21 with 17902 views | Lblock |
Can someone break it down for an idiot like me to understand?
I seem to have it wrong but my understanding is:-
You “allowed” (some would say encouraged) to lose £13Mill a season or £39Mill over 3 years.
Every 3 years the reset button is pressed.
Youth, training, infrastructure and our FFP fine are allowable costs and do not contribute to this amount.
So we are losing a Mill a month x 12 x 3 = £36mill
On top of that add transfers
SJ £625k
Field £250k
Dozzell £1.25Mill
Dykes £1.25Mill
Bonne £1.25Mill
Jordi £400k
Willock £450k
Dickie £1.5Mill
Dunne £450k
Loan fees say £250k
Say about £8.5mill with agent fees thrown in.
So that’s £44.5Mill
Deduct transfers
Eze £18Mill
Jordi £450k (inc a loan fee at first)
Others ….. buttons and fluff.
Balance = £26.05Mill or £8.68Mill a year
Now I’ve NEVER been a fan of us throwing money around and told the Bungle Brothers that their faces. However I just don’t see how we are so perilously close to the FFP limit wire if the above is anywhere near right???
More than happy to be shown I’m way off but I’ve based the above on the factual grounds that are the internet, this website and noises from the club CEO and DoF.
Losing the amount of money we do is a disgrace but I can’t see how this rhetoric that the owners would spend a bit more but their hands are tied actually adds up.
Relaxes back into armchair…….
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| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 07:22 - Aug 23 with 2290 views | nix |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 03:35 - Aug 23 by Match82 |
Feel free not to answer if you can't/shouldn't but was Bright interested in a deal at the point where he wasn't playing? If he believed (which he should given the evidence) that he was clearly good enough to be playing but was being held back, maybe he wasn't in a rush to sign anything?
Either way I agree that nobody came out of that situation with credit |
I'm not convinced he'd have signed anyway either. He did exactly the same to Blackpool, leaving them on a low fee for us when they'd wanted to increase his contract. But McClaren was a donkey for not picking him. |  | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 07:36 - Aug 23 with 2241 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 03:35 - Aug 23 by Match82 |
Feel free not to answer if you can't/shouldn't but was Bright interested in a deal at the point where he wasn't playing? If he believed (which he should given the evidence) that he was clearly good enough to be playing but was being held back, maybe he wasn't in a rush to sign anything?
Either way I agree that nobody came out of that situation with credit |
As I understand it, yes. |  | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 07:55 - Aug 23 with 2204 views | distortR |
if Willock doesn't sign and goes for a free, I'll be hugely unimpressed with him, not the club.
Essentially, he was working as a waitress in a cocktail bar, when we met him. |  | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 08:18 - Aug 23 with 2162 views | connell10 |
Why cant players just sign a new contract then leave ? The club gets the right money for a player they have invested in and the player gets his move! I cant understand why players cant just be a little loyal in situations like this! |  |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 08:48 - Aug 23 with 2119 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 08:18 - Aug 23 by connell10 |
Why cant players just sign a new contract then leave ? The club gets the right money for a player they have invested in and the player gets his move! I cant understand why players cant just be a little loyal in situations like this! |
I mean the horribly cynical answer to that is look at the deal Aaron Ramsey got at Juventus. If you leave on a free transfer you have more options of where to go, and you can demand a bigger wage and signing on fee because the club aren't paying a transfer fee. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:15 - Aug 23 with 2066 views | Rangersw12 |
The way Eze has started the season that 20% sell on clause will be very handy
I can see him going for 50 million either this window or January | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:37 - Aug 23 with 1999 views | SouthallRanger |
Exactly. There are two parties involved here not just QPR. If a player is good and knows their worth then they also know their options. All players such as Ramsey and Willock can use the situation to suit their needs and as disappointing it is to us as QPR fans that’s just the way it goes sometimes. Didn’t Willock run down his 5 year Arsenal contract before moving to Benfica? Obviously him and his advisors are clued on. Nothing wrong with that in a free market. Not much Les or anyone can do about that.
Hopefully they have clear and honest talks and understand each other’s situations. If so there could only be one of three outcomes:
1) club and player let contract run down. Qpr have to just swallow not getting a transfer fee, but know that they got good value for a player who played really well for us for a relatively modest investment. In this case the only additional benefit for qpr is if we have a good promotion push next year and willock helps in that. This will obviously be a good thing for willock provided any horrible injury.
2) same as option 1. Club and player talk and seems likely he won’t sign renewed contract… the alternative to option 1 is for qpr to sell in next one or two transfer windows and get maximum fee that they can find.
3) willock accepts to take a new improved offer (headroom allowing). Then he either plays for us throughout his best years which I would love. Or if a club comes in for him, we get a good fee.
I suspect most fans want option 3 but the player holds most cards here… not much qpr can do about that | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:49 - Aug 23 with 1959 views | EastR |
The way our finances are at the moment if we got an offer of £5m for Willock and £2.5m-£3m or above for anyone else, we’d be selling. | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:56 - Aug 23 with 1931 views | Blue_Castello |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 08:18 - Aug 23 by connell10 |
Why cant players just sign a new contract then leave ? The club gets the right money for a player they have invested in and the player gets his move! I cant understand why players cant just be a little loyal in situations like this! |
That's the problem when you have a talented player and no money there is zero loyalty , ever since the freedom of contract was established, admittedly some players do resign contracts but it's on their terms or should I say the agents terms.
In all fairness there are exceptions we have been lucky with Chair, he signed an extension I believe and his mate Eze did the decent thing, he was quoted in the press numerous times saying he was massively grateful for the Rs giving him his chance after being rejected by Millwall and the coaching he received by Ramsey. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 10:39 - Aug 23 with 1853 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Radical idea:
Players should be contracted to the league not the clubs. Places the financial burden on one (potentially) well regulated entity rather than 92 different corruptible ones. [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 13:07]
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 10:51 - Aug 23 with 1821 views | terryb |
I might not have many that agree with me, but why should any player show "loyalty" to the club they play for?
How many of us would stay with our employers if we were offered a more lucrative position elsewhere? Surely this is the main reason for changing jobs.
And when did clubs start showing loyalty to their footballing employees? They will dismiss mangerial staff frequently & not offer a contract renewal when it has ended, even though the player has given years of comitted service.
Perhaps an arguement could be made for products from the youth system, but then they will probably remember how they were left in limbo awaiting a decision on their future (every year). Also how a change of coach could move them to the bottom of the retained list.
Football is a cut throat business to all that are employed in the game. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:11 - Aug 23 with 1784 views | QPR_John |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 10:39 - Aug 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Radical idea:
Players should be contracted to the league not the clubs. Places the financial burden on one (potentially) well regulated entity rather than 92 different corruptible ones. [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 13:07]
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Interesting idea but who decides what clubs the player plays for and for how long before moving on. Added to that I would suggest the Football League at least is hardly a well regulated entity [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 11:13]
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:24 - Aug 23 with 1753 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:11 - Aug 23 by QPR_John |
Interesting idea but who decides what clubs the player plays for and for how long before moving on. Added to that I would suggest the Football League at least is hardly a well regulated entity [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 11:13]
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Same as now.
Clubs and players come to agreement dependent on the players ability, family situation, club needs, and stature. Sort of like a draft system.
Removing the money aspect makes financial doping impossible.
Never going to happen of course so don’t worry free marketeers! | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 12:43 - Aug 23 with 1619 views | derbyhoop |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 10:39 - Aug 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Radical idea:
Players should be contracted to the league not the clubs. Places the financial burden on one (potentially) well regulated entity rather than 92 different corruptible ones. [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 13:07]
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FFS
First time I've ever seen well regulated entity and EFL in the same paragraph. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:01 - Aug 23 with 1567 views | SouthallRanger |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:24 - Aug 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Same as now.
Clubs and players come to agreement dependent on the players ability, family situation, club needs, and stature. Sort of like a draft system.
Removing the money aspect makes financial doping impossible.
Never going to happen of course so don’t worry free marketeers! |
*Being careful not to get into a debate about free markets leading to a socialism vs capitalism debate
Interesting idea, but still not sure how it would work. Would need to see some sort of simulation in action to judge. My initial reaction is sceptical of the practicalities.
But ultimately I think it would fail anyway. If you wanted to disrupt free markets etc would salary caps be a less extreme solution. Obviously clubs and agents will still create differentiators, for example image rights and other revenue streams around the edges but it would probably bring teams finances in line with revenue better.
All in all it’s a culture thing. We live in a world where owners go for big finance… speculate to accumulate. Only some owners run clubs sensibly… like Gibson at boro (at least I think so)
The other thing is if we go with free markets… which is the only systems that panders to human nature of greed and self advancement, therefore it will always win out. At least football is one of the few industries where the workers (players) get the majority of the income into the industry, rather than being paid low wages, getting less than inflation rises and the people at the top getting disproportionately high salaries and bonuses. Even though the players are not the ones that made the original investments (risks).
In conclusion. It’s all bollocks. Let’s just enjoy life and have a laugh with each other. Make positive changes where you can. Vote for good people and good ideas when you get the opportunity. Hold people to account when they make bad decisions. Ie even if you are Tory through and through and believe in free markets etc (which is fine with me… don’t want to lecture people on politics and personal choices), still have a go at your MPs if they voted for dumping raw sewage into our rivers and seas etc [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 13:08]
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:08 - Aug 23 with 1519 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:01 - Aug 23 by SouthallRanger |
*Being careful not to get into a debate about free markets leading to a socialism vs capitalism debate
Interesting idea, but still not sure how it would work. Would need to see some sort of simulation in action to judge. My initial reaction is sceptical of the practicalities.
But ultimately I think it would fail anyway. If you wanted to disrupt free markets etc would salary caps be a less extreme solution. Obviously clubs and agents will still create differentiators, for example image rights and other revenue streams around the edges but it would probably bring teams finances in line with revenue better.
All in all it’s a culture thing. We live in a world where owners go for big finance… speculate to accumulate. Only some owners run clubs sensibly… like Gibson at boro (at least I think so)
The other thing is if we go with free markets… which is the only systems that panders to human nature of greed and self advancement, therefore it will always win out. At least football is one of the few industries where the workers (players) get the majority of the income into the industry, rather than being paid low wages, getting less than inflation rises and the people at the top getting disproportionately high salaries and bonuses. Even though the players are not the ones that made the original investments (risks).
In conclusion. It’s all bollocks. Let’s just enjoy life and have a laugh with each other. Make positive changes where you can. Vote for good people and good ideas when you get the opportunity. Hold people to account when they make bad decisions. Ie even if you are Tory through and through and believe in free markets etc (which is fine with me… don’t want to lecture people on politics and personal choices), still have a go at your MPs if they voted for dumping raw sewage into our rivers and seas etc [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 13:08]
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I don’t think that was very careful! 😆 [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 13:40]
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:25 - Aug 23 with 1479 views | SouthallRanger |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:08 - Aug 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I don’t think that was very careful! 😆 [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 13:40]
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Yes you’re right. Totally messed up there sorry. I’ll stick to qpr only from now on… and maybe my favourite cheese :) | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:26 - Aug 23 with 1466 views | PunteR |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 10:51 - Aug 23 by terryb |
I might not have many that agree with me, but why should any player show "loyalty" to the club they play for?
How many of us would stay with our employers if we were offered a more lucrative position elsewhere? Surely this is the main reason for changing jobs.
And when did clubs start showing loyalty to their footballing employees? They will dismiss mangerial staff frequently & not offer a contract renewal when it has ended, even though the player has given years of comitted service.
Perhaps an arguement could be made for products from the youth system, but then they will probably remember how they were left in limbo awaiting a decision on their future (every year). Also how a change of coach could move them to the bottom of the retained list.
Football is a cut throat business to all that are employed in the game. |
It's different though. It's like taking on an apprentice carpenter, training him for 3 years, investing in him , giving him opportunity to earn good money, support him when he makes mistakes and cover all the costs.
I get it if he's established but Willock wasn't and isn't. . He has masses of potential and he knows the club need to sell at a profit to make it all worth while. So we can invest back into the club and give other young players the same opportunity Willock had. Running his contract down is a C**nts game IMHO. |  |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:33 - Aug 23 with 1435 views | SouthallRanger |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:26 - Aug 23 by PunteR |
It's different though. It's like taking on an apprentice carpenter, training him for 3 years, investing in him , giving him opportunity to earn good money, support him when he makes mistakes and cover all the costs.
I get it if he's established but Willock wasn't and isn't. . He has masses of potential and he knows the club need to sell at a profit to make it all worth while. So we can invest back into the club and give other young players the same opportunity Willock had. Running his contract down is a C**nts game IMHO. |
The apprentice could argue that they returned your investment in them by carrying out jobs for the 3 years that they were with you which bought in revenue to your business. Same way willock has paid for the investment and salary by performing on the pitch which is what qpr bought him for. As long as he is respecting the contract that he signed then how can you judge him for that.
Obviously we see things through our clubs eyes and want decisions that favour qpr. But we have to live in the real world. Some footballers bring sentiment into their careers such as totti. But I wouldn’t expect that type of thing to be the norm | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:47 - Aug 23 with 1319 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:15 - Aug 23 by Rangersw12 |
The way Eze has started the season that 20% sell on clause will be very handy
I can see him going for 50 million either this window or January |
He could feasibly rescue us twice over that boy. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:16 - Aug 23 with 1255 views | QPR_John |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:24 - Aug 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Same as now.
Clubs and players come to agreement dependent on the players ability, family situation, club needs, and stature. Sort of like a draft system.
Removing the money aspect makes financial doping impossible.
Never going to happen of course so don’t worry free marketeers! |
Yes but what would be the agreement and would it need involvement of the league as well as club and player. Would it define a time like a current contract. If a player wanted to leave before the allotted time would he need the leagues permission or that of his current club. Would the league as third party owners require a fee. Interesting that you should suggest a draft system as you dislike anything from the USA. Would a player have a say in a draft system or would the bottom club of the previous season have first pick. Doubt it would work in a system with promotion and relegation | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:46 - Aug 23 with 1208 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:16 - Aug 23 by QPR_John |
Yes but what would be the agreement and would it need involvement of the league as well as club and player. Would it define a time like a current contract. If a player wanted to leave before the allotted time would he need the leagues permission or that of his current club. Would the league as third party owners require a fee. Interesting that you should suggest a draft system as you dislike anything from the USA. Would a player have a say in a draft system or would the bottom club of the previous season have first pick. Doubt it would work in a system with promotion and relegation |
‘Interesting that you should suggest a draft system as you dislike anything from the USA’
WtF are you on about you headbanger. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:51 - Aug 23 with 1205 views | derbyhoop |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:49 - Aug 23 by EastR |
The way our finances are at the moment if we got an offer of £5m for Willock and £2.5m-£3m or above for anyone else, we’d be selling. |
Our finances may be tight but that approach torpedoes the model we want to use.
If a player is valued at 15m you might sell for 12, but not for 5.
Brentford, as I understand, put a value on players and if anybody meets that valuation said player is sold. No Arguments.l | |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:55 - Aug 23 with 1195 views | kensalriser |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:46 - Aug 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
‘Interesting that you should suggest a draft system as you dislike anything from the USA’
WtF are you on about you headbanger. |
Come on man, everyone knows lefties hate everything American. |  |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:01 - Aug 23 with 1183 views | QPR_John |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:46 - Aug 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
‘Interesting that you should suggest a draft system as you dislike anything from the USA’
WtF are you on about you headbanger. |
Reverting to type I see | | | |
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