| FFP Headroom / P&S BS 14:20 - Aug 21 with 17903 views | Lblock |
Can someone break it down for an idiot like me to understand?
I seem to have it wrong but my understanding is:-
You “allowed” (some would say encouraged) to lose £13Mill a season or £39Mill over 3 years.
Every 3 years the reset button is pressed.
Youth, training, infrastructure and our FFP fine are allowable costs and do not contribute to this amount.
So we are losing a Mill a month x 12 x 3 = £36mill
On top of that add transfers
SJ £625k
Field £250k
Dozzell £1.25Mill
Dykes £1.25Mill
Bonne £1.25Mill
Jordi £400k
Willock £450k
Dickie £1.5Mill
Dunne £450k
Loan fees say £250k
Say about £8.5mill with agent fees thrown in.
So that’s £44.5Mill
Deduct transfers
Eze £18Mill
Jordi £450k (inc a loan fee at first)
Others ….. buttons and fluff.
Balance = £26.05Mill or £8.68Mill a year
Now I’ve NEVER been a fan of us throwing money around and told the Bungle Brothers that their faces. However I just don’t see how we are so perilously close to the FFP limit wire if the above is anywhere near right???
More than happy to be shown I’m way off but I’ve based the above on the factual grounds that are the internet, this website and noises from the club CEO and DoF.
Losing the amount of money we do is a disgrace but I can’t see how this rhetoric that the owners would spend a bit more but their hands are tied actually adds up.
Relaxes back into armchair…….
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:48 - Aug 22 with 2080 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:37 - Aug 22 by Myke |
If that is the case we need to sell NOW. He has done enough in his two appearances to show his quality, at the very least at the top end of the Championship. Watford for example. Get 5M for him now with add-ons, a lot better than another BOS situation in 12 months time. |
Well I have been saying that for a while TBF.
Not at £5m, but this window and next one will be prime time, otherwise you're just counting down to a BOS repeat. |  | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:48 - Aug 22 with 2079 views | Hunterhoop |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:37 - Aug 22 by Myke |
If that is the case we need to sell NOW. He has done enough in his two appearances to show his quality, at the very least at the top end of the Championship. Watford for example. Get 5M for him now with add-ons, a lot better than another BOS situation in 12 months time. |
His contract has almost 2 years left on it. You don’t sell him for £5m in that scenario. £20m now and £5m in 12 months when he has one year left. £10-15m in Jan depending on interest.
But yes, your point still stands, there is logic to selling now if we receive that type of offer, BUT I can’t see us having a replacement lined up, so it’ll really hurt the side.
Chair for £6m might allow us to agree a 2 yr extension to Willock on much bigger money, but with some still left over to sign a better forward. But you still have to sell him.
Unless we get promoted we will always have to sell our best players. The key is maximising the sale value. |  | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:50 - Aug 22 with 2062 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:48 - Aug 22 by Hunterhoop |
His contract has almost 2 years left on it. You don’t sell him for £5m in that scenario. £20m now and £5m in 12 months when he has one year left. £10-15m in Jan depending on interest.
But yes, your point still stands, there is logic to selling now if we receive that type of offer, BUT I can’t see us having a replacement lined up, so it’ll really hurt the side.
Chair for £6m might allow us to agree a 2 yr extension to Willock on much bigger money, but with some still left over to sign a better forward. But you still have to sell him.
Unless we get promoted we will always have to sell our best players. The key is maximising the sale value. |
Sweepstake on when these posts attract the reply we all know is coming... | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:53 - Aug 22 with 2037 views | Hunterhoop |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:48 - Aug 22 by Northernr |
Well I have been saying that for a while TBF.
Not at £5m, but this window and next one will be prime time, otherwise you're just counting down to a BOS repeat. |
Or you sell Chair. That would be my strategy. £6m gives you money to play with in a contract discussion with Willock (protecting the higher value asset); if that contract extension gets you £6m more in sale, it has a double benefit.
£20k per week extra for Willock is £1m a year. You could sign two decent freebies on half that, the cost of which is covered for 3 years from the sale alone. One of those signings works, you gave another sellable asset (or maybe Dickie, Dunne, JCS, Dieng, Field) becomes that sellable player.
They may have left it too late for the strategy. They may have had no offers, but there are other ways to approach the Willock situation. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:56 - Aug 22 with 2009 views | toboboly |
I know we think our players are worth £xxx and should be sold for £yyy but isn't it noticeable that there is very little rumour around transfer windows for any of our lot. Chair, Willock, Dickie, Dieng should be sellable assets but is there actually any interest in them?
Are we looking at things too much from a QPR perspective? |  |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:59 - Aug 22 with 1998 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:53 - Aug 22 by Hunterhoop |
Or you sell Chair. That would be my strategy. £6m gives you money to play with in a contract discussion with Willock (protecting the higher value asset); if that contract extension gets you £6m more in sale, it has a double benefit.
£20k per week extra for Willock is £1m a year. You could sign two decent freebies on half that, the cost of which is covered for 3 years from the sale alone. One of those signings works, you gave another sellable asset (or maybe Dickie, Dunne, JCS, Dieng, Field) becomes that sellable player.
They may have left it too late for the strategy. They may have had no offers, but there are other ways to approach the Willock situation. |
If Willock would sign. I'm not convinced he would. Perhaps if you agreed to a low release clause, but that's rather self defeating. I desperately hope I'm wrong, and TBH I'm saying it as often as I am to try and make it not true, but I think the agent/dad will be eyeing the possibilities that would be available to him in summer 2024. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:11 - Aug 22 with 1938 views | DannytheR |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:53 - Aug 22 by Hunterhoop |
Or you sell Chair. That would be my strategy. £6m gives you money to play with in a contract discussion with Willock (protecting the higher value asset); if that contract extension gets you £6m more in sale, it has a double benefit.
£20k per week extra for Willock is £1m a year. You could sign two decent freebies on half that, the cost of which is covered for 3 years from the sale alone. One of those signings works, you gave another sellable asset (or maybe Dickie, Dunne, JCS, Dieng, Field) becomes that sellable player.
They may have left it too late for the strategy. They may have had no offers, but there are other ways to approach the Willock situation. |
Thing is though, Chair, Willock and everyone else are all effectively for sale already aren't they? I know Watford were sniffing round Ilias last summer and may do again, but it isn't like we've been actively knocking back bids for anybody as far as I know.
It all feels very lose-lose, unfortunately. As it stands we're stuck with some very obvious problems and a squad that barely classes as threadbare BUT if either of Willock or Chair goes now, I'd fear for us. No-one needs telling how important Willock is, but while Chair has weirdly become some people's designated scapegoat, he's also the most dogged competitor in the squad by some distance. Taking that out of the team with only Johansen's "leadership" to replace it? Really doesn't bear thinking about.
Sadly I also doubt whether Willock will re-sign even if we do sell someone else and have a bit more cash to play with. The boy deserves Premiership football, and let's be honest, a Premiership wage with it. Why is he going to jeopardise that when he's already had a couple of nasty injury scares in his career?
(Which also means all the more credit to Chair for signing a contract extension with us after the BOS/Manning fiascos, but that's another post...) [Post edited 22 Aug 2022 14:12]
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:12 - Aug 22 with 1934 views | kensalriser |
Willock is worth rather more than £5m to the club right now so I’d be astonished if he were sold for that. If he keeps putting in the performances we know he can, he’ll be worth more in Jan.
Not that I would like to see him sold this season. As much as I get the whole financial and FFP situation, and I really do, players like Willock are what makes the curse of supporting QPR somewhat bearable. |  |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:17 - Aug 22 with 1928 views | Myke |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:12 - Aug 22 by kensalriser |
Willock is worth rather more than £5m to the club right now so I’d be astonished if he were sold for that. If he keeps putting in the performances we know he can, he’ll be worth more in Jan.
Not that I would like to see him sold this season. As much as I get the whole financial and FFP situation, and I really do, players like Willock are what makes the curse of supporting QPR somewhat bearable. |
Yes, but if we wait until january then he is six months nearer the end of his contract, which will clearly reduce his value |  | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:17 - Aug 22 with 1925 views | PhilmyRs |
We were really unlucky with Willock last season. Had his form continued and he'd finished the season, I think not only would we have been closer to the play-offs, he’d have been sold this summer and it would have enabled some decent investment and rebuilding. As it is, we’ve been limited in what we can do. Despite the limitations, I think we’ve made an error in not prioritising a number 9 — be it a loan or permanent. With Austin and Gray departing (which were the right calls), we’ve taken away some guaranteed goals. Roberts looks good and waiting to see the Brighton lad, but in the case of Roberts he doesn’t seem to be a natural goal scorer/striker to me, more a creative type.
I see some good stuff but with Dykes drop in form, goals look a serious problem and with the limited budget available, a striker should have been top of the list, closely followed by a couple of full backs. Fingers crossed Roberts is able to take on the role because I'm a bit more nervous than usual about how things may go this term. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:31 - Aug 22 with 1886 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:56 - Aug 22 by toboboly |
I know we think our players are worth £xxx and should be sold for £yyy but isn't it noticeable that there is very little rumour around transfer windows for any of our lot. Chair, Willock, Dickie, Dieng should be sellable assets but is there actually any interest in them?
Are we looking at things too much from a QPR perspective? |
It's almost a perfect storm, one that Bristol City have also been caught in - loads of our assets are in that mid-range Champ market £4m-£8m which has collapsed completely. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:53 - Aug 22 with 1825 views | derbyhoop |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:31 - Aug 22 by Northernr |
It's almost a perfect storm, one that Bristol City have also been caught in - loads of our assets are in that mid-range Champ market £4m-£8m which has collapsed completely. |
If we have to sell Willock before the start of next season, I'd be disappointed not to get somewhere around 15m.
If he keeps scoring that figure would go up, last year of contract or not. |  |
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Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:03 - Aug 22 with 1805 views | Hunterhoop |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:59 - Aug 22 by Northernr |
If Willock would sign. I'm not convinced he would. Perhaps if you agreed to a low release clause, but that's rather self defeating. I desperately hope I'm wrong, and TBH I'm saying it as often as I am to try and make it not true, but I think the agent/dad will be eyeing the possibilities that would be available to him in summer 2024. |
Oh, absolutely. I imagine you’re right. Although if someone came in for him now/Jam and it was Prem club on good money, they’d take it. Could still have a career ending injury between then and the following summer.
But to protect us against the risk, you need to sell one of the others, and, personally, I think Chair is the most replaceable of him, Dickie, Dieng and Field. Willock could play on one side with Roberts/Adomah/Shodipo on the other, Richards and Amos can play in the middle.
The issue, as you say, is the market for players of good Champ standard of £5-10m just disappearing.
I do wonder if Villa’s deal for Sarr falling through (if it does) will cause them to look elsewhere, such as Willock given Gerard can pick up the phone to Beale. They could do worse. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:16 - Aug 22 with 1748 views | TheChef |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:03 - Aug 22 by Hunterhoop |
Oh, absolutely. I imagine you’re right. Although if someone came in for him now/Jam and it was Prem club on good money, they’d take it. Could still have a career ending injury between then and the following summer.
But to protect us against the risk, you need to sell one of the others, and, personally, I think Chair is the most replaceable of him, Dickie, Dieng and Field. Willock could play on one side with Roberts/Adomah/Shodipo on the other, Richards and Amos can play in the middle.
The issue, as you say, is the market for players of good Champ standard of £5-10m just disappearing.
I do wonder if Villa’s deal for Sarr falling through (if it does) will cause them to look elsewhere, such as Willock given Gerard can pick up the phone to Beale. They could do worse. |
Chair, if he went, I think we could more or less manage. If someone offered £5 million I'd snap their hand off.
Willock has the X factor though and will inevitably go soon, you just hope we have someone lined up (or we already have?) that could do the same? Just as he in many ways replaced Eze. |  |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:56 - Aug 22 with 1638 views | ridethewave |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:24 - Aug 22 by Northernr |
I'd be surprised if Willock has any interest in extending a contract. Him and his agent/dad will be very, very aware of the sort of deals that will be on offer for him as a free transfer. |
Can you imagine the uproar (somewhat justified) if we sell Willock for a pittance or let him go on a free because we didn't get his contract right... |  | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:04 - Aug 22 with 1614 views | Blue_Castello |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:31 - Aug 22 by Northernr |
It's almost a perfect storm, one that Bristol City have also been caught in - loads of our assets are in that mid-range Champ market £4m-£8m which has collapsed completely. |
Yup the market of £4-£8 million has collapsed but surely Willock is worth more, we'll he is in my eyes just watching him on Saturday and if Tavernier fetches £10 million and Lewis-Potter for £16 million then that's the market for Willock....
PS -I desperately want Willock to stay like everybody else, he's a real entertainer and is of great value to the team but also appreciate we have to sell if a big money offer is on the table, even though it could push us into a relegation battle. [Post edited 22 Aug 2022 16:08]
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:24 - Aug 22 with 1568 views | Burnleyhoop |
Despite all the above discussions regarding our perilous financial situation, it hasn’t stopped Beale tapping up Gerrard for some of his youngsters…..according to WLS. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:31 - Aug 22 with 1537 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:04 - Aug 22 by Blue_Castello |
Yup the market of £4-£8 million has collapsed but surely Willock is worth more, we'll he is in my eyes just watching him on Saturday and if Tavernier fetches £10 million and Lewis-Potter for £16 million then that's the market for Willock....
PS -I desperately want Willock to stay like everybody else, he's a real entertainer and is of great value to the team but also appreciate we have to sell if a big money offer is on the table, even though it could push us into a relegation battle. [Post edited 22 Aug 2022 16:08]
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I think so yes, he's the one. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:35 - Aug 22 with 1529 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 15:56 - Aug 22 by ridethewave |
Can you imagine the uproar (somewhat justified) if we sell Willock for a pittance or let him go on a free because we didn't get his contract right... |
I think the uproar with Bright was justified. That was really poor because Les, Lee, everybody knew what we had, but McClaren wasn't having it. They should have done what they wanted to do and renewed his deal regardless - they haven't been shy renewing deals for Nico, Charlie Owens and others who are nowhere near the first team, and they should have done so with Bright. One of their big problems with McClaren was that he wouldn't pick Bright, I personally heard one of the execs at the club after one game that season asking "who does Bright have to blow to get a game at this club?" so they knew what they had, knew the manager was wrong, but still didn't renew the deal. Then when he got his chance and showed himself, they started coming with contract offers, by which time there was no time left on the deal, there was interest elsewhere, it was too late.
It's not an exact science. We slag them for this and Manning, but slag them for giving kakay and Nico long deals, sometimes you can't win. But that was a very poor miss for me.
Willock, I don't know. You can't force somebody to sign a deal. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, maybe he will. But I think, from what I hear, the agent/dad know exactly what they've got and what he's worth. If you go on a free transfer you command a much bigger wage and signing on fee, and more clubs will be interested. So I'm not sure you could criticise them in the same way. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:36 - Aug 22 with 1524 views | Myke |
I just don't think Willock has done enough to be on m(any) premier league managers radar. He is not like Eze who was playing at the very top level for us for over two years. Remember, it took Willock most of his first season here to find his feet and last season was curtailed by serious injury. This season- while his two goals have been superb - 2 appearances from 5 is not what they are looking for. I think he would need this full season (or at the very least until Jan) to attract notice higher than the Championship's elite. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:52 - Aug 22 with 1478 views | PhilmyRs |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:35 - Aug 22 by Northernr |
I think the uproar with Bright was justified. That was really poor because Les, Lee, everybody knew what we had, but McClaren wasn't having it. They should have done what they wanted to do and renewed his deal regardless - they haven't been shy renewing deals for Nico, Charlie Owens and others who are nowhere near the first team, and they should have done so with Bright. One of their big problems with McClaren was that he wouldn't pick Bright, I personally heard one of the execs at the club after one game that season asking "who does Bright have to blow to get a game at this club?" so they knew what they had, knew the manager was wrong, but still didn't renew the deal. Then when he got his chance and showed himself, they started coming with contract offers, by which time there was no time left on the deal, there was interest elsewhere, it was too late.
It's not an exact science. We slag them for this and Manning, but slag them for giving kakay and Nico long deals, sometimes you can't win. But that was a very poor miss for me.
Willock, I don't know. You can't force somebody to sign a deal. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, maybe he will. But I think, from what I hear, the agent/dad know exactly what they've got and what he's worth. If you go on a free transfer you command a much bigger wage and signing on fee, and more clubs will be interested. So I'm not sure you could criticise them in the same way. |
I share the Dave Mc view on Bright. He suggests the club didn't really do a lot wrong and nobody could anticipate the dramatic upturn in form and performance which took everyone by surprise. Although what you've written below suggests people knew what they had with Bright, I don't think that's the case personally. I think the cub and everyone else were surprised by the speed of improvement and development and then it was always going to be an upward battle to retain him.
Agree completely that Steve Mc didn't pick him when he should have but don't think club should be slaughtered for that or the contract situation - Personally think they're more deserving of criticism for the long contracts they've dished out as opposed to the Bright saga. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:58 - Aug 22 with 1392 views | PunteR |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 14:31 - Aug 22 by Northernr |
It's almost a perfect storm, one that Bristol City have also been caught in - loads of our assets are in that mid-range Champ market £4m-£8m which has collapsed completely. |
What are we talking about when we say "mid-range Champ market £4m-£8m which has collapsed completely. ? |  |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 18:07 - Aug 22 with 1376 views | Northernr |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:58 - Aug 22 by PunteR |
What are we talking about when we say "mid-range Champ market £4m-£8m which has collapsed completely. ? |
Well pre-pandemic you had West Brom at this level paying £8m for Zohore, Cardiff paying £8m for Madine, Boro similar for Braihtwaite and Fletcher, Newcastle paying it for Gayle, Villa paying it for McCormick, Hogan, Kodija, Boro and Cardiff both paying that for Aden Flint, Stoke paid £8m for Afobe. Loads and loads of examples.
Now... Where are those deals? Championship players moving between Championship clubs for north of £4.5m? There are a few, like Kieffer Moore in January, but nowhere near as many. I think there are still nine clubs in this league this season yet to spend any money at all this summer.
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 18:47 - Aug 22 with 1269 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
You're always more likely to get more money for your players if you're competing regularly at the top end of the table. It's what Brentford did before they went up.
If we're competing for the play-offs, then the likes of Dieng, Dickie and Chair show they can be part of a successful team, plus they need more incentive to leave the club. Ergo the buying club needs to pay more for them. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 03:35 - Aug 23 with 1071 views | Match82 |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:35 - Aug 22 by Northernr |
I think the uproar with Bright was justified. That was really poor because Les, Lee, everybody knew what we had, but McClaren wasn't having it. They should have done what they wanted to do and renewed his deal regardless - they haven't been shy renewing deals for Nico, Charlie Owens and others who are nowhere near the first team, and they should have done so with Bright. One of their big problems with McClaren was that he wouldn't pick Bright, I personally heard one of the execs at the club after one game that season asking "who does Bright have to blow to get a game at this club?" so they knew what they had, knew the manager was wrong, but still didn't renew the deal. Then when he got his chance and showed himself, they started coming with contract offers, by which time there was no time left on the deal, there was interest elsewhere, it was too late.
It's not an exact science. We slag them for this and Manning, but slag them for giving kakay and Nico long deals, sometimes you can't win. But that was a very poor miss for me.
Willock, I don't know. You can't force somebody to sign a deal. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, maybe he will. But I think, from what I hear, the agent/dad know exactly what they've got and what he's worth. If you go on a free transfer you command a much bigger wage and signing on fee, and more clubs will be interested. So I'm not sure you could criticise them in the same way. |
Feel free not to answer if you can't/shouldn't but was Bright interested in a deal at the point where he wasn't playing? If he believed (which he should given the evidence) that he was clearly good enough to be playing but was being held back, maybe he wasn't in a rush to sign anything?
Either way I agree that nobody came out of that situation with credit |  | | |
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