| General Election Thread 17:46 - May 22 with 95669 views | loftboy |
This will be the first election that I have no idea who to vote for, will never vote Tory again after the lies during covid where my dad lost his life, don’t trust starmer, would never vote for a bunch of racists like reform , anyone give me a clue?
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| General Election Thread on 10:14 - May 30 with 1306 views | Gus_iom |
| General Election Thread on 09:49 - May 30 by GloryHunter |
Sounds shocking. Better vote Conservative to stop this flagrant abuse of the benefits system. Oh -- hang on . . . . |
Did I say that? There has never been a time I would vote for that party - possibly, I suppose, a candidate who I thought was good, but that's doubtful. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:19 - May 30 with 1263 views | Gus_iom |
| General Election Thread on 10:06 - May 30 by ted_hendrix |
I hope things work out for you Mate. |
Cheers Ted, they will.
Will be back at work on Monday, against Dr's orders.... | | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:21 - May 30 with 1244 views | Watford_Ranger |
It has its flaws but UBI is a policy I’m a big fan of. Replaces a lot of the admin associated with various benefits including pensions and removes the argument of work not paying when it’s below a certain level. Whenever it’s considered there’s a huge backlash though. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:22 - May 30 with 1240 views | Gus_iom |
| General Election Thread on 10:21 - May 30 by Watford_Ranger |
It has its flaws but UBI is a policy I’m a big fan of. Replaces a lot of the admin associated with various benefits including pensions and removes the argument of work not paying when it’s below a certain level. Whenever it’s considered there’s a huge backlash though. |
Absolutely with you on this, mate. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:27 - May 30 with 1207 views | loftboy |
| General Election Thread on 10:21 - May 30 by Watford_Ranger |
It has its flaws but UBI is a policy I’m a big fan of. Replaces a lot of the admin associated with various benefits including pensions and removes the argument of work not paying when it’s below a certain level. Whenever it’s considered there’s a huge backlash though. |
Not heard of UBI, what does it stand for? | |
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| General Election Thread on 10:28 - May 30 with 1197 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 10:13 - May 30 by Clive_Anderson |
It doesn't have to add up to the party life does it?
It just has to be better than working a minimum wage job which would be the alternative for a lot of people who then think "fck that" and then you have mass immigration to fill the jobs that aren't worth doing for the locals.
Also benefits are inflation linked and most jobs are not, so more and more people are being dragged into "why bother" zone every year which makes this problem even worse.
A job has to pay significantly better than benefits to be worth doing, because the costs associated with working (work clothes, commuting costs, lunch out etc.) need to be deducted and more importantly 50 hours of your week doing something you probably don't like need to be rewarded. |
Fine, but I’m really curious as to how many people are in the category of getting more benefits than a minimum wage job?
Anecdotally I don’t know any. Those family members and friends that do claim so are genuine and struggle. I certainly won’t begrudge them a drink or a packet of fags.
There is a lot in that link below, but taking the state pension and other and pandemic related UC away those numbers seem quite low AND on the decline.
I don’t think we should form policy by what we see when we look over our neighbour’s fence. It’s got to be based on hard numbers I think.
I’d rather see us tackle the Amazons and Ubers of the world.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/dwp-benefits-statistics-august-2023/ben |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:29 - May 30 with 1194 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 10:27 - May 30 by loftboy |
Not heard of UBI, what does it stand for? |
Universal Basic Income | | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:31 - May 30 with 1176 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 10:21 - May 30 by Watford_Ranger |
It has its flaws but UBI is a policy I’m a big fan of. Replaces a lot of the admin associated with various benefits including pensions and removes the argument of work not paying when it’s below a certain level. Whenever it’s considered there’s a huge backlash though. |
There is a huge debate on the Left about UBI and many would rather see UBS which is Universal Basic Services.
Personally I don’t know which is better, but I’d welcome either or both as a more efficient and ethical way to distribute wealth. [Post edited 30 May 10:33]
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| General Election Thread on 10:32 - May 30 with 1159 views | SheffieldHoop |
Didn't we just spend a year trialing UBI during Covid? Isn't that what caused all the inflation, and our mortgages going up? |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 with 1152 views | Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:35 - May 30 with 1146 views | loftboy |
| General Election Thread on 10:29 - May 30 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Universal Basic Income |
Cheers | |
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| General Election Thread on 10:54 - May 30 with 1072 views | derbyhoop |
Maybe there is a correlation between the numbers not working and the huge waiting lists in NHS. I appreciate that Covid made a lot of people 50+ think they'd had enough of working, so that's 2 factors.
Add in zero hours and/or min wage contracts it's not hard to see the attraction.
I doubt if DWP has the resources to identify many of those who could work but choose not to and claim benefits. In many cases the benefits barely cover subsistence living. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| General Election Thread on 10:56 - May 30 with 1062 views | hubble |
| General Election Thread on 08:53 - May 30 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Isn’t it £120 a week or something?
I don’t think people are living like the Kardashians on £120 a week. |
Not unless you're Bulgarian.... (and you can multiply this many times over for multiple other countries if you want to guess the actual scale of benefit fraud)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/28/bulgarian-town-boomed-from-uks-bigge
"The Bulgarian town that boomed from UK’s biggest benefits fraud"
"Their scheme unravelled when Inspector Vassil Panayotov, a detective based in Sliven, in the foothills of the Balkan mountains, launched an investigation into the sudden influx of cash in his city after noticing properties were being built and residents were wearing designer clothing.
He found that thousands of people, of whom many had never visited Britain, were receiving up to £2,500 a month in benefits from the UK.
He alerted the UK authorities via the British embassy in Sofia and in May 2021 a series of raids were conducted across north London.
The true scale of the fraud is likely to be hundreds of millions of pounds higher than estimated, according to Mr Panayotov." |  |
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| General Election Thread on 11:00 - May 30 with 1038 views | SheffieldHoop |
| General Election Thread on 10:13 - May 30 by Clive_Anderson |
It doesn't have to add up to the party life does it?
It just has to be better than working a minimum wage job which would be the alternative for a lot of people who then think "fck that" and then you have mass immigration to fill the jobs that aren't worth doing for the locals.
Also benefits are inflation linked and most jobs are not, so more and more people are being dragged into "why bother" zone every year which makes this problem even worse.
A job has to pay significantly better than benefits to be worth doing, because the costs associated with working (work clothes, commuting costs, lunch out etc.) need to be deducted and more importantly 50 hours of your week doing something you probably don't like need to be rewarded. |
About 2 years ago when I was still living in my dad's old council flat, one of the neighbors gave me a bunch of advice on how I would go about gaming the system, and it made me realize how many others are at it. People whose culture it is to make themselves a problem for the government, and generally get what they want because of it (within reason of course, don't think anybody is claiming these guys are holidaying in California twice a year) but at the same time they don't have to worry about feeding their kids in a month where the Boiler needs new parts or something.
We tell people that if they can't afford to have kids (Because we need to tax you to pay for other people's kids), don't have kids.....Unfortunately, the only people who listen are the people we really need to be having kids, and the people who don't listen just carry on doing what the fck they want. Hence the kids seem impossible to control atm......most of the people having kids atm are the people the Govt has no control of.
There's also a huge amount of cash in hand work about, the black market is about as prevalent as I've ever known it, to the point that the lines are becoming blurred and crime just happens in open before our eyes and we just accept it, there's loads of money about, it's just a matter of what we choose to spend it on. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 11:05 - May 30 with 1033 views | Gus_iom |
| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 by Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Well, Mone is big news over here, she, and all the others who ripped off tax payers to cash in on covid should be thrown in prison, as far as I'm concerned.
We have a state run water company, and shit is still going directly into the sea.
I heard an interesting interview with an American author who has written a book on the working class experience in America, and she found that in that class there wasn't a huge hatred of billionaires, as they were seen as job creators, among other reasons.
I suppose, where I live, I not only see but also endure the behaviour of little shits who contribute nothing - twice in a week not long ago I went out and confronted people about what they are doing, I'm being avoided now but my van has a nice new scratch.
But yeah, I would love to see a clamp down at both ends of the 'taking the piss' spectrum..
UBI would, in my opinion, take a big step in making work profitable again. My wife is a care worker - what they are paid compared to what they contribute is a disgrace.
UBI would also enable people to take a bit of time out to train up or re-train. My wife recently tried to gain access to a beginners course in computers. She was told she couldn't, because she wasn't unemployed. She fought that, and gained access. Two other people were on the course. Wtaf.
Anyway, I should probably stay clear of this thread now as well! Announce Jordan Rhodes.... | | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:06 - May 30 with 1020 views | connell10 |
| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 by Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Agree mate and exactly what the people at the top want. Divide and conquer.....shift the blame , make scapegoats....this shit has gone for years and until it changes the rich will do what they want when the rest of us literally swim in a sea of shite. |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| General Election Thread on 11:11 - May 30 with 985 views | Northernr |
| General Election Thread on 11:05 - May 30 by Gus_iom |
Well, Mone is big news over here, she, and all the others who ripped off tax payers to cash in on covid should be thrown in prison, as far as I'm concerned.
We have a state run water company, and shit is still going directly into the sea.
I heard an interesting interview with an American author who has written a book on the working class experience in America, and she found that in that class there wasn't a huge hatred of billionaires, as they were seen as job creators, among other reasons.
I suppose, where I live, I not only see but also endure the behaviour of little shits who contribute nothing - twice in a week not long ago I went out and confronted people about what they are doing, I'm being avoided now but my van has a nice new scratch.
But yeah, I would love to see a clamp down at both ends of the 'taking the piss' spectrum..
UBI would, in my opinion, take a big step in making work profitable again. My wife is a care worker - what they are paid compared to what they contribute is a disgrace.
UBI would also enable people to take a bit of time out to train up or re-train. My wife recently tried to gain access to a beginners course in computers. She was told she couldn't, because she wasn't unemployed. She fought that, and gained access. Two other people were on the course. Wtaf.
Anyway, I should probably stay clear of this thread now as well! Announce Jordan Rhodes.... |
Yeh, like I say, absolutely not an 'either or' situation.
I must have seen half a dozen people shop lifting - like literally just picking it up and walking out with it telling the manager to "fck off" on the way - at the Co-op on Goldhawk Road this season alone. And that's just one shop, and I'm in there for 2 minutes once a fortnight, 0943-0945 Saturday home games. And there I am paying for my stuff like a right knobhead.
So I do completely get it. I just wish I felt the same energy on here and in general for cnts like Mone, Owen, Lord Aschcroft, Thames Water etc as I do scroungers tossing it off with a widescreen TV. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:17 - May 30 with 966 views | Clive_Anderson |
| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 by Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Well those are problems too, but I don't quite get your point. You agree something is a problem, but don't think we should talk about it as much as another unrelated problem?
No one has got particularly angry about it either, just pointing out how broken the system is. I even pointed out I don't blame the people doing it and would probably do exactly the same in their position. I find it odd that people get very agitated about someone pointing something out that they agree is probably true.
Covid fraud was a massive problem and there were lots of dodgy government contracts to mates as far as I can see, I'd like to see a lot of people do jail time over some of the stuff that happened. Also personally I feel the lockdowns were unnecessary and the government money splurge to make it happen was absurd and wide open to abuse, but it seemed to be very popular on here at the time. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:19 - May 30 with 962 views | Northernr |
| General Election Thread on 11:17 - May 30 by Clive_Anderson |
Well those are problems too, but I don't quite get your point. You agree something is a problem, but don't think we should talk about it as much as another unrelated problem?
No one has got particularly angry about it either, just pointing out how broken the system is. I even pointed out I don't blame the people doing it and would probably do exactly the same in their position. I find it odd that people get very agitated about someone pointing something out that they agree is probably true.
Covid fraud was a massive problem and there were lots of dodgy government contracts to mates as far as I can see, I'd like to see a lot of people do jail time over some of the stuff that happened. Also personally I feel the lockdowns were unnecessary and the government money splurge to make it happen was absurd and wide open to abuse, but it seemed to be very popular on here at the time. |
You do get my point - You agree something is a problem, but don't think we should talk about it as much as another unrelated problem?
That's exactly it.
What's the bigger problem? I think it's the latter. Just my opinion. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:19 - May 30 with 955 views | SheffieldHoop |
| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 by Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Didn't they just complete the new Thames super sewer? That cost billions, have they turned it on yet? Also wouldn't they be pumping the waste out at Beckton? And it flows out to sea from there? Strongly doubt anybody walking along the river in Richmond is going to see a floater
I'm interested to read more about this though, the reading I've done so far implies it's nowhere near as big an issue as you are implying here, but I know echo chambers have that kind of effect which is why it's good to have these threads on here. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 11:30 - May 30 with 915 views | Clive_Anderson |
| General Election Thread on 11:19 - May 30 by Northernr |
You do get my point - You agree something is a problem, but don't think we should talk about it as much as another unrelated problem?
That's exactly it.
What's the bigger problem? I think it's the latter. Just my opinion. |
Well financially there's not really a contest I don't think. Benefits bill is around £150bn a year and growing rapidly. Plus you've got the loss of productivity that isn't really taken into account and the endless population growth needed to solve the issue driving up housing costs which will make the problem worse in the long run as more people have to rely on housing benefits for somewhere to live.
Covid fraud was a total of £21bn for a one off event, which if you blame the Tories for will be solved in a couple of weeks when they get booted out. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:30 - May 30 with 914 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 10:56 - May 30 by hubble |
Not unless you're Bulgarian.... (and you can multiply this many times over for multiple other countries if you want to guess the actual scale of benefit fraud)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/28/bulgarian-town-boomed-from-uks-bigge
"The Bulgarian town that boomed from UK’s biggest benefits fraud"
"Their scheme unravelled when Inspector Vassil Panayotov, a detective based in Sliven, in the foothills of the Balkan mountains, launched an investigation into the sudden influx of cash in his city after noticing properties were being built and residents were wearing designer clothing.
He found that thousands of people, of whom many had never visited Britain, were receiving up to £2,500 a month in benefits from the UK.
He alerted the UK authorities via the British embassy in Sofia and in May 2021 a series of raids were conducted across north London.
The true scale of the fraud is likely to be hundreds of millions of pounds higher than estimated, according to Mr Panayotov." |
Yeah that's horrendous, infuriating, but also illegal.
It's not really a case against the welfare system which I think was the oriinal point being made in as much as a diamond heist is a case against diamonds. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:31 - May 30 with 908 views | Bluce_Ree |
Man, I've always voted but this time around I don't think I can be arsed. You know what? Whoever gets in, I'll still be in the same house, the same job, paying more or less the same taxes.
There will still be untold dossers not contributing anything to society, there will still be bankers and hedge fund managers and whatever robbing us blind, there will be more crime, more pricks, more of everything bad. There will still be Ed Sheeran, Britain's Got Talent and Liverpool FC. There will still be litter, people getting stabbed and children having their faces eaten by Bully XLs. I'll probably get stabbed in the face by a 17 year old while getting my arms chewed off by a dog called Tyson. F**k it. News boycott. Someone let me know who wins and give me a shout when someone finally assassinates Putin.
Until then all I care about is QPR and the next series of Bake Off. |  |
| ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE THROUGH MARTI THE REDEEMER WHO STRENGTHENS ME. |
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| General Election Thread on 11:32 - May 30 with 903 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 11:30 - May 30 by Clive_Anderson |
Well financially there's not really a contest I don't think. Benefits bill is around £150bn a year and growing rapidly. Plus you've got the loss of productivity that isn't really taken into account and the endless population growth needed to solve the issue driving up housing costs which will make the problem worse in the long run as more people have to rely on housing benefits for somewhere to live.
Covid fraud was a total of £21bn for a one off event, which if you blame the Tories for will be solved in a couple of weeks when they get booted out. |
I might be wrong but I think about 55% of that figure includes pensions. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:35 - May 30 with 890 views | Clive_Anderson |
| General Election Thread on 11:32 - May 30 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I might be wrong but I think about 55% of that figure includes pensions. |
I think that's without pensions, it's about £260bn for both pensions and benefits, but there's also some benefits in the separate "protection" category, so about £150bn in benefits in total. | | | |
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