| General Election Thread 17:46 - May 22 with 116770 views | loftboy |
This will be the first election that I have no idea who to vote for, will never vote Tory again after the lies during covid where my dad lost his life, don’t trust starmer, would never vote for a bunch of racists like reform , anyone give me a clue?
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| General Election Thread on 08:39 - Jun 5 with 2879 views | hubble |
| General Election Thread on 02:35 - Jun 5 by SydneyRs |
Luckily for Starmer, Sunak is no better when it comes to charisma. Charisma shouldn't matter when electing a PM, but sadly does.
I think people forget how good Blair was when he started out and he certainly had plenty of charisma. Power does strange things to people though. It gets lost in the boring "war criminal" narrative that has emerged around him. A war that was backed by the opposition at the time plus conservative governments in the US and Australia, yet is used as a stick to beat Labour/Blair with. If anyone can show me the tories vehemently protesting against it at the time, I'd love to see it. [Post edited 5 Jun 2:39]
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A Blair apologist. How wonderful to see one, I thought they were as rare as hen's teeth.
It certainly says a lot about someone when you are prepared to turn a blind eye to a man who knowingly went to war on completely false pretences - and therefore an illegal war - a war that saw the death of hundreds of thousands (if not more) of innocent people and led to the interminable foment of the Middle East ever since; a turmoil which has also led to the dislocation of millions and the huge wave of immigration from that part of the world into Europe and the rise of wonderful people like Islamic State. Way to go, TB.
And let's not forget that Blair basked in the adulation that cosying up to Bush granted him. Two allies in an act that contravened international law and morality. But hey, that's ok, he was of the so-called 'liberal left', so let's give him a free pass. No court of law for him and his role in the massacre of innocents, no, that's reserved for those who have committed far more heinous crimes, such as paying hush money to a porn star.
Edit: Oh, I forgot to add: the "boring war criminal narrative" - yes, how awful, people going on about such trivial things! [Post edited 5 Jun 9:05]
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| General Election Thread on 08:57 - Jun 5 with 2835 views | Clive_Anderson |
| General Election Thread on 02:33 - Jun 5 by SydneyRs |
You are right, but even as far back as Blair Labour could not get elected without becoming tory lite, thanks mainly to the largely right wing UK media. They had to abandon the Kinnock, Foot type leader and get posh boy Blair in with his nice suits to win in 97. And that was after nearly 20 years of the tories being in govt.
Sad state of affairs but until a fair and unbiased media exists, which will properly never happen, nothing will change. I reckon as a minimum these newspapers and media websites should have to prominently display the fact they are supportive of certain political parties, a bit like the warnings on cigarette packets that disclose something which should be obvious to everyone but clearly isn't. |
People consume the media that reflects their views rather than the other way around. If more people agreed with the Guardian and Independent then they'd buy them instead of the right leaning papers.
I don't like the idea of trying to hamper media that you don't agree with by being forced to display messages saying how bad they are etc. Why not let people read what they want to unhindered?
The opposition went along with the Iraq war because they were told the government had intelligence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that could hit the UK in 45 minutes. The Tories might well have gone along with it anyway, but we'll never know, I suspect it would never have got through parliament without the dodgy dossier with enough rebels on both sides voting down the government. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 09:20 - Jun 5 with 2767 views | FDC |
| General Election Thread on 19:33 - Jun 4 by FDC |
The power v righteousness dichotomy is a useful framing for the labour right who like to present themselves as pragmatic and grown up, as opposed the left who are niave and idealistic.
This is nonsense. The reality is that the labour right are not pragmatic but desire power for it's own sake (and for the access it provides their future careers on company boards), but as we're about to find out, getting into government with neither a policy platform or a mandate to actually do anything, having not presented a vision for anything (as a consequence of not actually having a vision for anything) means that you have very little room for maneuver and are not able to fix anything.
I suspect we're about to witness something quite unusual: an enormous landslide followed by an enormously unpopular term in office. Which probably says a lot about the state of British politics. |
I didn't watch the debate but this is a great example of how Starmer's (Morgan McSweeney's) Labour have, by refusing to present an alternative vision, allowed Tory ideology and political framing to pass into uncontested commonsense, thereby totally constraining themselves from actual enacting an alternative program in government
[Post edited 5 Jun 9:21]
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| General Election Thread on 09:34 - Jun 5 with 2735 views | Superhoop83 |
| General Election Thread on 02:33 - Jun 5 by SydneyRs |
You are right, but even as far back as Blair Labour could not get elected without becoming tory lite, thanks mainly to the largely right wing UK media. They had to abandon the Kinnock, Foot type leader and get posh boy Blair in with his nice suits to win in 97. And that was after nearly 20 years of the tories being in govt.
Sad state of affairs but until a fair and unbiased media exists, which will properly never happen, nothing will change. I reckon as a minimum these newspapers and media websites should have to prominently display the fact they are supportive of certain political parties, a bit like the warnings on cigarette packets that disclose something which should be obvious to everyone but clearly isn't. |
Good post.
I know intelligent people who read the Daily Mail and don't see it for what is so patently is, i.e. feeding its readers the kind of hatred and fear mongering they absolutely lap up. They will even quote "news" from the Mail to me as proof of their point and there is no point even trying to give them an alternative point of view as they view their rag as gospel.
These people include my mum and my dad, long divorced but as one when it comes to their love of the Tories and the royal family (with two notable exceptions), their loathing of Sadiq Khan and their dislike of minorities of all kinds. |  |
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| General Election Thread on 09:56 - Jun 5 with 2668 views | Discodroids |
| General Election Thread on 09:34 - Jun 5 by Superhoop83 |
Good post.
I know intelligent people who read the Daily Mail and don't see it for what is so patently is, i.e. feeding its readers the kind of hatred and fear mongering they absolutely lap up. They will even quote "news" from the Mail to me as proof of their point and there is no point even trying to give them an alternative point of view as they view their rag as gospel.
These people include my mum and my dad, long divorced but as one when it comes to their love of the Tories and the royal family (with two notable exceptions), their loathing of Sadiq Khan and their dislike of minorities of all kinds. |
I Know intelligent people that read the guardian. There is no point even trying to give them an alternative point of view as they view their Dr white jam wrag two piece suit epistle of effluvia as gospel.
Crazy times. [Post edited 5 Jun 9:57]
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| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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| General Election Thread on 10:36 - Jun 5 with 2571 views | Clive_Anderson |
| General Election Thread on 09:56 - Jun 5 by Discodroids |
I Know intelligent people that read the guardian. There is no point even trying to give them an alternative point of view as they view their Dr white jam wrag two piece suit epistle of effluvia as gospel.
Crazy times. [Post edited 5 Jun 9:57]
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There's a subset of the population that simply can't handle any media that has a different viewpoint. I don't like the Guardian much either but don't rant on about it all the time or want to see it banned.
The main complaint against the Daily Mail seems to be publishing uncomfortable truths that they would rather people didn't hear about, such as any problems associated with immigration as that would be "promoting hate" or some other nonsense. If a story is true then people should be allowed to read about it. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:45 - Jun 5 with 2543 views | Discodroids |
| General Election Thread on 10:36 - Jun 5 by Clive_Anderson |
There's a subset of the population that simply can't handle any media that has a different viewpoint. I don't like the Guardian much either but don't rant on about it all the time or want to see it banned.
The main complaint against the Daily Mail seems to be publishing uncomfortable truths that they would rather people didn't hear about, such as any problems associated with immigration as that would be "promoting hate" or some other nonsense. If a story is true then people should be allowed to read about it. |
I haven't purchased a newspaper for about 3 years. They all bore me. no matter what their political creedo.
The only time i do buy one is when some posters on here call for a boycott of the Mail or the Sun, when I make sure to buy two copies of each daily.
The demonic delusions of grandeur and Roman Emperor ego of posters , (not superhoop
by the way), telling others what papers they should or shouldn't imbibe blows my synapse apart.
Rest assured, i drink in their Derision, scorn and castratus rage with a vampiric thirst that will never quench . [Post edited 5 Jun 10:48]
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| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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| General Election Thread on 11:20 - Jun 5 with 2447 views | daveB |
| General Election Thread on 10:45 - Jun 5 by Discodroids |
I haven't purchased a newspaper for about 3 years. They all bore me. no matter what their political creedo.
The only time i do buy one is when some posters on here call for a boycott of the Mail or the Sun, when I make sure to buy two copies of each daily.
The demonic delusions of grandeur and Roman Emperor ego of posters , (not superhoop
by the way), telling others what papers they should or shouldn't imbibe blows my synapse apart.
Rest assured, i drink in their Derision, scorn and castratus rage with a vampiric thirst that will never quench . [Post edited 5 Jun 10:48]
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I used to buy the Sun for the tits, the mad made up stories were entertaining and the Sports pages were usually quite good but haven't bought a paper in years now. Thats not for any strong political feeling just got out of the habit of buying them and don't miss them |  | | |
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| General Election Thread on 13:21 - Jun 5 with 2312 views | derbyhoop |
| General Election Thread on 08:03 - Jun 5 by dmm |
A general election debate is just a reality TV show. The idea we could understand complex political issues through 45 second soundbites is simply ludicrous. No one should watch these shows to make any kind of informed decision on who to vote for. |
I thought it was awful. JE allowed both to talk over each other. The big takeaway was SunK's repeated claim of £2000 extra tax. That has now been seen to be a lie. However, claims like that can stick.
Overall I thought Sunak was rude and aggressive, but Starmer was short on detail. Political equivalent of a tedious 0-0 draw. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| General Election Thread on 13:54 - Jun 5 with 2217 views | Hunterhoop |
| General Election Thread on 13:21 - Jun 5 by derbyhoop |
I thought it was awful. JE allowed both to talk over each other. The big takeaway was SunK's repeated claim of £2000 extra tax. That has now been seen to be a lie. However, claims like that can stick.
Overall I thought Sunak was rude and aggressive, but Starmer was short on detail. Political equivalent of a tedious 0-0 draw. |
I like this.
Sunak was like a really organised, but aggressive and direct Pulis side. Starmer was like us under JFH: dull even though he was trying not to be.
Or, for a more recent and high level analogy. Sunak was Mourinho and Starmer was Southgate.
0-0. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 13:56 - Jun 5 with 2207 views | CamberleyR |
| General Election Thread on 13:21 - Jun 5 by derbyhoop |
I thought it was awful. JE allowed both to talk over each other. The big takeaway was SunK's repeated claim of £2000 extra tax. That has now been seen to be a lie. However, claims like that can stick.
Overall I thought Sunak was rude and aggressive, but Starmer was short on detail. Political equivalent of a tedious 0-0 draw. |
Starmer played a blinder I think. He was obviously in possession of that letter saying it wasn't Treasury civil servants who'd come up with this two grand a year figure and like the top lawyer he is, he let the defendant Sunak lie again and again to the jury to basically hang himself. |  |
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| General Election Thread on 14:35 - Jun 5 with 2118 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 13:21 - Jun 5 by derbyhoop |
I thought it was awful. JE allowed both to talk over each other. The big takeaway was SunK's repeated claim of £2000 extra tax. That has now been seen to be a lie. However, claims like that can stick.
Overall I thought Sunak was rude and aggressive, but Starmer was short on detail. Political equivalent of a tedious 0-0 draw. |
Renaming the PM "Sunk" is rather good. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 15:01 - Jun 5 with 2062 views | derbyhoop |
| General Election Thread on 14:35 - Jun 5 by dmm |
Renaming the PM "Sunk" is rather good. |
It might have been appropriate but was, in fact, a typing error.
Sophy Ridge had a better one live on Sky, talking about Hunt. She used the wrong leading consonant. | |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| General Election Thread on 16:56 - Jun 5 with 1959 views | Watford_Ranger |
| General Election Thread on 08:39 - Jun 5 by hubble |
A Blair apologist. How wonderful to see one, I thought they were as rare as hen's teeth.
It certainly says a lot about someone when you are prepared to turn a blind eye to a man who knowingly went to war on completely false pretences - and therefore an illegal war - a war that saw the death of hundreds of thousands (if not more) of innocent people and led to the interminable foment of the Middle East ever since; a turmoil which has also led to the dislocation of millions and the huge wave of immigration from that part of the world into Europe and the rise of wonderful people like Islamic State. Way to go, TB.
And let's not forget that Blair basked in the adulation that cosying up to Bush granted him. Two allies in an act that contravened international law and morality. But hey, that's ok, he was of the so-called 'liberal left', so let's give him a free pass. No court of law for him and his role in the massacre of innocents, no, that's reserved for those who have committed far more heinous crimes, such as paying hush money to a porn star.
Edit: Oh, I forgot to add: the "boring war criminal narrative" - yes, how awful, people going on about such trivial things! [Post edited 5 Jun 9:05]
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Blair and Brown was an evidently good combo for leading this country. No PM since has come close. Brown deserved a chance at a full stint on his own as he’s unquestionably a hardworking, good bloke and politician who didn’t court the limelight but the country had to clutch its pearls over him calling a bigoted woman a bigot and we were dumb enough to vote in another chinless Etonian.
So yeah I’m a Blair ‘apologist’. New Labour achieved loads of positives. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:03 - Jun 5 with 1939 views | Sonofpugwash |
Strong rumour that Fat Boris is seeking to join Reform. |  |
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| General Election Thread on 17:18 - Jun 5 with 1930 views | Esox_Lucius |
| General Election Thread on 01:00 - Jun 5 by johncharles |
You mean, like me, you smell of beer anyway. Whoever threw milk on Farage knew what they were doing. Sour, rancid milk is going to stink to high heaven. |
Guaranteed to be a set up photo op. There is a photo of him with the woman arrested for throwing the milkshake from a while back. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| General Election Thread on 17:21 - Jun 5 with 1921 views | FDC |
| General Election Thread on 17:18 - Jun 5 by Esox_Lucius |
Guaranteed to be a set up photo op. There is a photo of him with the woman arrested for throwing the milkshake from a while back. |
It's not her, the woman that did it has been arrested, different person | | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:45 - Jun 5 with 1880 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 10:36 - Jun 5 by Clive_Anderson |
There's a subset of the population that simply can't handle any media that has a different viewpoint. I don't like the Guardian much either but don't rant on about it all the time or want to see it banned.
The main complaint against the Daily Mail seems to be publishing uncomfortable truths that they would rather people didn't hear about, such as any problems associated with immigration as that would be "promoting hate" or some other nonsense. If a story is true then people should be allowed to read about it. |
Did the "uncomfortable truths" that you believe the Mail publish include, in your view, their reports in the 1930s that Hitler was a saviour and that we needed someone similar here?
They have been churning out the same distorted, agenda driven news for a century. Have had mates who have worked there over the years, they freely admit their job is to ferment hate, envy and fear. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 18:28 - Jun 5 with 1798 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 17:45 - Jun 5 by Stainrod |
Did the "uncomfortable truths" that you believe the Mail publish include, in your view, their reports in the 1930s that Hitler was a saviour and that we needed someone similar here?
They have been churning out the same distorted, agenda driven news for a century. Have had mates who have worked there over the years, they freely admit their job is to ferment hate, envy and fear. |
That would be the paper owned by Viscount Rothermere who lives in France, has non-dom tax status and owns his media businesses through a complex structure of offshore holdings and trusts so he doesn't pay tax. The famously patriotic Daily Mail readers must be so proud. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 18:46 - Jun 5 with 1748 views | derbyhoop |
As a bit of light relief
Mummy, do all fairy stories begin "Once upon a time"?
No son, many begin with "If elected, I promise ...." | |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| General Election Thread on 20:34 - Jun 5 with 1634 views | Sonofpugwash |
Apparently Starmer's dad was a toolmaker.
There's a joke in there somewhere. | |
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| General Election Thread on 04:48 - Jun 6 with 1468 views | FDC |
| General Election Thread on 20:34 - Jun 5 by Sonofpugwash |
Apparently Starmer's dad was a toolmaker.
There's a joke in there somewhere. |
Really? Interesting, he should mention it. Wonder what he used to do for a job? | | | |
| General Election Thread on 08:05 - Jun 6 with 1361 views | Esox_Lucius |
| General Election Thread on 04:48 - Jun 6 by FDC |
Really? Interesting, he should mention it. Wonder what he used to do for a job? |
His father owned a toolmakers company of which he was the only employee. As for being looked down on, I call BS. Toolmakers are regarded as the most highly skilled of all mechanical engineers. | |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| General Election Thread on 08:38 - Jun 6 with 1298 views | Clive_Anderson |
| General Election Thread on 17:45 - Jun 5 by Stainrod |
Did the "uncomfortable truths" that you believe the Mail publish include, in your view, their reports in the 1930s that Hitler was a saviour and that we needed someone similar here?
They have been churning out the same distorted, agenda driven news for a century. Have had mates who have worked there over the years, they freely admit their job is to ferment hate, envy and fear. |
Yes I was clearly referring to a comment from 100 years ago well done.
"Have had mates who have worked there over the years, they freely admit their job is to ferment hate, envy and fear."
Also this is true and 100% totally not made up  | | | |
| General Election Thread on 00:47 - Jun 7 with 934 views | SydneyRs |
| General Election Thread on 08:57 - Jun 5 by Clive_Anderson |
People consume the media that reflects their views rather than the other way around. If more people agreed with the Guardian and Independent then they'd buy them instead of the right leaning papers.
I don't like the idea of trying to hamper media that you don't agree with by being forced to display messages saying how bad they are etc. Why not let people read what they want to unhindered?
The opposition went along with the Iraq war because they were told the government had intelligence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that could hit the UK in 45 minutes. The Tories might well have gone along with it anyway, but we'll never know, I suspect it would never have got through parliament without the dodgy dossier with enough rebels on both sides voting down the government. |
But if people hear the same arguments for long enough they start to become truth to them. The tabloids which is what most ordinary people read are heavily biased to right wing views and are very skilled at promoting those ideas. | | | |
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