| General Election Thread 17:46 - May 22 with 124769 views | loftboy |
This will be the first election that I have no idea who to vote for, will never vote Tory again after the lies during covid where my dad lost his life, don’t trust starmer, would never vote for a bunch of racists like reform , anyone give me a clue?
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| General Election Thread on 07:42 - Jun 15 with 1115 views | StreathamRanger |
| General Election Thread on 22:05 - Jun 14 by derbyhoop |
UK hasnt got enough available workers to fill numerous low paid positions. Either through not being fit for work or a life on benefits. The former affected by 7.5m on NHS waiting lists. The care sector, hospitality and construction are dependent on immigrant workers who are unlikely to earn £38k.
Generally, immigrants are young, out of education and going to work for a long time. I remember figures showing immigrants paying more tax per head than native workers. So I really dont understand where you get your figures from. |
My mum's care home in Wimbledon is staffed almost entirely by immigrants. It treats it's staff well and pays above market rate but still mainly staffed by young men and women from Indian subcontinent. They are hard working, kind and patient and work with some very challenging behaviour from the residents with dementia (including my mum). I'm very grateful that they decided to come and work in the UK despite the frosty reception they receive from many people. If we only allowed skilled labour in then the care system would be totally screwed. No way the 'native' British could or would even want to fill all the vacancies in care homes. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 08:08 - Jun 15 with 1043 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
The immigration arguments, both for, against or limited, are really interesting.
Our country, though, is not alone with the conundrum of a longer living population coupled with a falling workforce/tax contributions to provide care. This debate is going on worldwide.
The one thing I don't understand though is the lack of guilt in this country, regardless of political leanings, to taking health care workers from low income countries such as The Philippines. These workers are badly needed in their own countries, yet we are quite happy to poach them to fill our own needs.
The right love it as they are cheap, the left love it as it Saves the NHS. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 08:13 - Jun 15 with 1036 views | Clive_Anderson |
| General Election Thread on 22:05 - Jun 14 by derbyhoop |
UK hasnt got enough available workers to fill numerous low paid positions. Either through not being fit for work or a life on benefits. The former affected by 7.5m on NHS waiting lists. The care sector, hospitality and construction are dependent on immigrant workers who are unlikely to earn £38k.
Generally, immigrants are young, out of education and going to work for a long time. I remember figures showing immigrants paying more tax per head than native workers. So I really dont understand where you get your figures from. |
The figures are in the link in my comment.
I don't think as many migrants work in the things you list, as if they did then the millions already here would have filled those jobs and yet we still have an endless shortage of workers. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 08:17 - Jun 15 with 1032 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 22:53 - Jun 14 by StJude82 |
Check out the Greens manifesto. It certifies their extreme left wing-edness. |
‘Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Green Party’
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| General Election Thread on 09:38 - Jun 15 with 959 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 22:53 - Jun 14 by StJude82 |
Check out the Greens manifesto. It certifies their extreme left wing-edness. |
I know! Isn't it great? A party with proper left wing policies like taxing the mega wealthy, providing for the most vulnerable, taking the climate crisis seriously and being prepared to change our outdated electoral system so we have a real representative political system instead of one in name only.
Thanks for pointing this out. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 09:47 - Jun 15 with 948 views | loftboy |
| General Election Thread on 09:38 - Jun 15 by dmm |
I know! Isn't it great? A party with proper left wing policies like taxing the mega wealthy, providing for the most vulnerable, taking the climate crisis seriously and being prepared to change our outdated electoral system so we have a real representative political system instead of one in name only.
Thanks for pointing this out. |
Haven’t we had a referendum quite recently on changing the voting system from first past the post to proportional representation and as a country we voted against it🤷♂️ | |
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| General Election Thread on 09:50 - Jun 15 with 942 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 09:47 - Jun 15 by loftboy |
Haven’t we had a referendum quite recently on changing the voting system from first past the post to proportional representation and as a country we voted against it🤷♂️ |
Is 14 years recent? A lot of new pissed off voters have been added to the electorate since then. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:00 - Jun 15 with 923 views | Esox_Lucius |
| General Election Thread on 20:30 - Jun 13 by hubble |
I just want to point out the unsavoury and unwarranted accusation in your post:
"Force people (white people I'm guessing would be your preference) to breed more?"
I think SheffieldHoop has been fairly scrupulous in replying to all the different posters who have (apparently) taken umbrage with his point of view, but nothing that he has said warrants your (IMO) snide accusation.
What I find interesting is that the most hostile and ad hominem posts in this thread have come from those who position themselves on the 'liberal left', who are, supposedly, the inclusive and 'progressive' class.
No one has a monopoly on what is 'right' or 'wrong', no one's opinions are more valid than anyone else's and all morals are subjective.
(edit - spelling mistake) [Post edited 13 Jun 20:39]
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I read that as ironic sarcasm. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| General Election Thread on 10:07 - Jun 15 with 907 views | essextaxiboy |
I heard on the radio yesterday that the Greens would introduce a frequent flyer levy allowing you one levy free flight a year . The next one would would carry a levy of 25 quid and go up from there up to a maximum of a £585 levy on each flight . |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:13 - Jun 15 with 897 views | HAYESBOY |
Just to compare in Europe. Its only us and Belarus who have first past the post voting system. I think at some stage in the future we will go to PR. |  |
| Smells like a trout farm in here |
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| General Election Thread on 10:14 - Jun 15 with 893 views | FDC |
| General Election Thread on 09:50 - Jun 15 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Is 14 years recent? A lot of new pissed off voters have been added to the electorate since then. |
Yeah a whole new generation of voters since then, that are accurately aware of being locked out of political representation [Post edited 15 Jun 10:14]
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| General Election Thread on 10:16 - Jun 15 with 891 views | FDC |
| General Election Thread on 10:13 - Jun 15 by HAYESBOY |
Just to compare in Europe. Its only us and Belarus who have first past the post voting system. I think at some stage in the future we will go to PR. |
It'll take some kind of crisis -- but maybe a party with a mega majority on about 35% of the vote should be considered a crisis for democracy | | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:19 - Jun 15 with 887 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 10:07 - Jun 15 by essextaxiboy |
I heard on the radio yesterday that the Greens would introduce a frequent flyer levy allowing you one levy free flight a year . The next one would would carry a levy of 25 quid and go up from there up to a maximum of a £585 levy on each flight . |
It's long overdue. Aviation is the fastest-growing source of CO2 emissions, and it’s the wealthiest driving this trend. In the UK, around 15% of people take 70% of all flights, and they are the wealthy.
We simply can't allow rich people to keep on living like that. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:19 - Jun 15 with 886 views | loftboy |
| General Election Thread on 10:07 - Jun 15 by essextaxiboy |
I heard on the radio yesterday that the Greens would introduce a frequent flyer levy allowing you one levy free flight a year . The next one would would carry a levy of 25 quid and go up from there up to a maximum of a £585 levy on each flight . |
Would that be return or one way? Total Bollocks really, you get premier league teams flying internally when train could do the same trip, politicians off on their jollies and rich people jetting off in their private planes, but let’s hammer a family that dare to have two holidays a year. | |
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| General Election Thread on 10:30 - Jun 15 with 875 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 10:19 - Jun 15 by loftboy |
Would that be return or one way? Total Bollocks really, you get premier league teams flying internally when train could do the same trip, politicians off on their jollies and rich people jetting off in their private planes, but let’s hammer a family that dare to have two holidays a year. |
It was on LBC
Ferrari asked him if it was a return and he said no , so 100 quid on a four person holiday . | | | |
| General Election Thread on 10:46 - Jun 15 with 842 views | stevec |
| General Election Thread on 09:38 - Jun 15 by dmm |
I know! Isn't it great? A party with proper left wing policies like taxing the mega wealthy, providing for the most vulnerable, taking the climate crisis seriously and being prepared to change our outdated electoral system so we have a real representative political system instead of one in name only.
Thanks for pointing this out. |
The Greens are effectively Momentum these days having largely been kicked out of the Labour Party.
No harm really, a nice place for the Idealists to dance around the Maypole. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:05 - Jun 15 with 802 views | hubble |
| General Election Thread on 09:38 - Jun 15 by dmm |
I know! Isn't it great? A party with proper left wing policies like taxing the mega wealthy, providing for the most vulnerable, taking the climate crisis seriously and being prepared to change our outdated electoral system so we have a real representative political system instead of one in name only.
Thanks for pointing this out. |
It's certainly quasi-Marxist.
Lots of things they're going to force us to do, in the fortunately unlikely event they get into power. However what concerns me most about the Greens is how they have been infiltrated by all sorts of other radical causes. That recent clip of the newly elected Islamic 'Green' councillor and his followers chanting 'Alluhah Akbar" was chilling.
And then you have their obsessive allegiance to the radical trans activist movement, which has even led to them expelling their own female members who have dared to speak out about the Green Party's support of this, over actual women's rights. Part of this saga played out in public, and is reported here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67546751
The Greens seem to have abandoned the path of reason and sensible environmentalism in favour of radical extremism. This reflects the 'hard left' side of the Labour Party, who are equally scary in their ideological zeal.
Before climate change became coopted by the 'powers that would be' (the WEF and their ilk, including most Western govts.) as a trojan horse for new ways to control the masses, I liked the Greens and supported much of their common sense environmentalism, but that has been lost now in a mishmash of things that seem closer to cultism than anything approaching common sense.
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| General Election Thread on 11:20 - Jun 15 with 771 views | loftboy |
| General Election Thread on 10:19 - Jun 15 by dmm |
It's long overdue. Aviation is the fastest-growing source of CO2 emissions, and it’s the wealthiest driving this trend. In the UK, around 15% of people take 70% of all flights, and they are the wealthy.
We simply can't allow rich people to keep on living like that. |
But even one hundred quid on a flight to multi millionaires is nothing, the only people this will affect is the hard working people who save up all year for one or two holidays in the sun for a bit of rest and chill time round the pool. | |
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| General Election Thread on 11:39 - Jun 15 with 724 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 11:05 - Jun 15 by hubble |
It's certainly quasi-Marxist.
Lots of things they're going to force us to do, in the fortunately unlikely event they get into power. However what concerns me most about the Greens is how they have been infiltrated by all sorts of other radical causes. That recent clip of the newly elected Islamic 'Green' councillor and his followers chanting 'Alluhah Akbar" was chilling.
And then you have their obsessive allegiance to the radical trans activist movement, which has even led to them expelling their own female members who have dared to speak out about the Green Party's support of this, over actual women's rights. Part of this saga played out in public, and is reported here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67546751
The Greens seem to have abandoned the path of reason and sensible environmentalism in favour of radical extremism. This reflects the 'hard left' side of the Labour Party, who are equally scary in their ideological zeal.
Before climate change became coopted by the 'powers that would be' (the WEF and their ilk, including most Western govts.) as a trojan horse for new ways to control the masses, I liked the Greens and supported much of their common sense environmentalism, but that has been lost now in a mishmash of things that seem closer to cultism than anything approaching common sense.
. [Post edited 15 Jun 11:06]
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Assuming all this is true (it isn't) can you blame people for turning to radical causes? [Post edited 15 Jun 11:41]
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| General Election Thread on 11:45 - Jun 15 with 714 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 11:05 - Jun 15 by hubble |
It's certainly quasi-Marxist.
Lots of things they're going to force us to do, in the fortunately unlikely event they get into power. However what concerns me most about the Greens is how they have been infiltrated by all sorts of other radical causes. That recent clip of the newly elected Islamic 'Green' councillor and his followers chanting 'Alluhah Akbar" was chilling.
And then you have their obsessive allegiance to the radical trans activist movement, which has even led to them expelling their own female members who have dared to speak out about the Green Party's support of this, over actual women's rights. Part of this saga played out in public, and is reported here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67546751
The Greens seem to have abandoned the path of reason and sensible environmentalism in favour of radical extremism. This reflects the 'hard left' side of the Labour Party, who are equally scary in their ideological zeal.
Before climate change became coopted by the 'powers that would be' (the WEF and their ilk, including most Western govts.) as a trojan horse for new ways to control the masses, I liked the Greens and supported much of their common sense environmentalism, but that has been lost now in a mishmash of things that seem closer to cultism than anything approaching common sense.
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What would the Greens force you to do?
I know little of the Green councillor you mention. Is he a 'radical'? I don't know, but doubt it. However, I do know the term "Alluhah Akbar" is one that is used by most Muslims in all sorts of ways such as the birth of a child, completing a fast, or getting a wage rise. There's actually no reason at all to feel chilled by it.
The Greens believe in the right of self-identification for trans and non-binary people. They also believe in standing up against misogyny and violence against women and girls. Like many others, you have a different view to them but as a relatively new issue, the trans debate has yet to be bottomed out and needs a lot more research and discussion.
And Climate Change... Wouldn't it be common sense to listen to and follow the actual science? When 99% of scientists in all climate related fields tell us we're in an existential crisis, wouldn't taking immediate and effective action to prevent a global catastrophe be the only thing to do? Those who are anti-science or believe in Climate pseudo-science or have some kind of conspiratorial theory about this issue are the ones tending toward cultism. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 12:09 - Jun 15 with 669 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 11:20 - Jun 15 by loftboy |
But even one hundred quid on a flight to multi millionaires is nothing, the only people this will affect is the hard working people who save up all year for one or two holidays in the sun for a bit of rest and chill time round the pool. |
I get your point and personally would like to see far tougher measures on the most frequent flyers, particularly those that use private planes as they are the worst polluters.
The way a frequent flyer levy would work is the first flight you take, departing flight that is, would have no tax, the second one would have a relatively low rate, say £10, the third £20, fourth £40, fifth £80 - it either doubles or goes up in large increments. So for most, an annual holiday abroad wouldn't be massively affected.
However, everyone who can fly (and remember there is a significant number of people in the world who will never be able to afford to fly) needs to be prepared to reduce the flights they take because of the climate crisis. The choice between taking a flight anytime you want and having a liveable world isn't difficult, is it? | | | |
| General Election Thread on 12:10 - Jun 15 with 666 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 09:38 - Jun 15 by dmm |
I know! Isn't it great? A party with proper left wing policies like taxing the mega wealthy, providing for the most vulnerable, taking the climate crisis seriously and being prepared to change our outdated electoral system so we have a real representative political system instead of one in name only.
Thanks for pointing this out. |
Under PR UKIP would have got around 60 seats in 2015 . Their vote share was bigger than the SNP and Lib Dems combined who ended up with 64 combined seats .
Its not only smaller left wing parties that would benefit from a change . I dont want Farage anywhere near Parliament. [Post edited 15 Jun 12:11]
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| General Election Thread on 12:16 - Jun 15 with 657 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 12:09 - Jun 15 by dmm |
I get your point and personally would like to see far tougher measures on the most frequent flyers, particularly those that use private planes as they are the worst polluters.
The way a frequent flyer levy would work is the first flight you take, departing flight that is, would have no tax, the second one would have a relatively low rate, say £10, the third £20, fourth £40, fifth £80 - it either doubles or goes up in large increments. So for most, an annual holiday abroad wouldn't be massively affected.
However, everyone who can fly (and remember there is a significant number of people in the world who will never be able to afford to fly) needs to be prepared to reduce the flights they take because of the climate crisis. The choice between taking a flight anytime you want and having a liveable world isn't difficult, is it? |
I may have mis heard but I thought he said the maximum levy would apply over 10 flight per year .
I am not wealthy but I have a son living and working in Zurich who still holds his ST and flies back for a few games a year and we go out for the Christmas markets . I have a seriously ill relative in Madrid who we visit every 2 or 3 months .One sunshine holiday in September .
That s few quid for just an ordinary family | | | |
| General Election Thread on 12:35 - Jun 15 with 621 views | Northernr |
| General Election Thread on 12:09 - Jun 15 by dmm |
I get your point and personally would like to see far tougher measures on the most frequent flyers, particularly those that use private planes as they are the worst polluters.
The way a frequent flyer levy would work is the first flight you take, departing flight that is, would have no tax, the second one would have a relatively low rate, say £10, the third £20, fourth £40, fifth £80 - it either doubles or goes up in large increments. So for most, an annual holiday abroad wouldn't be massively affected.
However, everyone who can fly (and remember there is a significant number of people in the world who will never be able to afford to fly) needs to be prepared to reduce the flights they take because of the climate crisis. The choice between taking a flight anytime you want and having a liveable world isn't difficult, is it? |
Me too. I think it's ridiculous the amount of flights there are between destinations in a small country like ours. It's scandalous that Premier league football clubs fly everywhere - Leicester fly for Norwich away for goodness sake.
But this comes back to something I said earlier. Things are complicated and nuanced, but people want to pretend there are easy answers. We don't want Johnny Foreigner - fine. But we also can't answer how we'd staff care homes, hospitals, hospitality, farms etc.
It's easy to say we'd ban domestic flights, heavily levy frequent flyers etc. But what does the alternative look like? The trains from London to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen etc are slow, over crowded, unaffordable and unreliable. The planes are frequent, cheap, quick, and have capacity. If it's £30 on EasyJet or £130 on LNER, what you gonna do?
In France you can turn around and say we're banning domestic flights quite easily because they've invested and built a viable, affordable, fast alternative. Their rail system is absolutely unbelievable, and you can just glide around the whole country at super high speed, luxurious comfort, in a train with a fcking panoramic bar carriage in it. Frequent, cheap, fast, smooth. A beautiful experience. Here you cram yourself into an overcrowded, 30 year old, diesel Avanti Voyager service running under electric cables - when it runs at all - and it costs you £200+ to get to Preston.
You build the alternative infrastructure, then you hammer people who choose not to use it. As I understand it the Greens also oppose HS2.
So no internal flights, fine I'm with you, you've got my vote. But also we don't want HS2? That's not a serious policy from serious people.
I actually don't think I've heard anybody mention trains once in this election campaign really. And it's such an easy fcking win because they're so extortionate and so crap atm that you can't help but improve them whatever you do, apart from doing nothing of course.
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| General Election Thread on 12:35 - Jun 15 with 618 views | FDC |
Sometimes I wonder how the country got into such a mess. Then i see people are describing a piddling increase in taxation in order to fix public services as Marxism. | | | |
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